XP re-evaluation - Sign this Petition!

[Borror0]

Equalizing the exp for effort SOMEWHAT (not rigidly) might help encourage more players to break out of the WW-STK-TR-Delera's-SC-[leap to Gianthold with level 8 characters] mold. Maybe

Exactly what I think.

What I hope is that they don't lower the XP, but rather increase the XP from those that are lacking. I mean, no matter how you're going to repeat some quests, they're never going to be good XP/time options as an harbor quest give more XP than that level 6+ quest.

Even if you're doing the WW-STK-Delara's-SC thing, leveling takes time... let's not make it longer.

[aldan]

One thought:

I dont see how quest completion times could even be a factor. One group might breeze through Freshen the Air because the group makeup, spell selection, and many other factors.

So the time it takes a group to finish a quest becomes irrelevant. Freshen the Air is in the same category as Proof is in the Poison and Gladewatch outpost defense. All three quests are hard for their level and no one wants to run them ever except for favor purposes.

But alot claim DDO is sooo easy and to make some quests harder. There are hard quests out there but people dont want to run them because they are a challenge.

I dont see how the devs could balance xp without wasting a huge amount of time which could be used for more new dungeons. I feel that Turbine has learned a few things about the amount of xp a quest should offer. Look at POP, they nerfed the heck out of it and for good reason.

The game is evolving and as we go along, we should see some improvement overall but I do agree that the very unbalanced quests may need a little attention. What quests those are, is another debate.

Cant say that signing this petition will do any good.

I do agree with the OP that a few quests need some attention.

[aldan]

Mostly people are re rolling toons and want to level fast. THere will always be the "quickest route to 16", no matter if you change the xp tables. THen it would be WW, STK, Freshen the Poison, or whatever.

One benefit is that the quests which were ignored, may be part of the quickest to 16 again, and some that were part of that plan may no longer be played. Some of the original "quickest to 16" may be replaced by quests that are easier to complete and pay the same.

This wont fix the problem.

To fix the problem, everyone needs to just slow down and enjoy the ride. Yeah right!, I for one just flat out dont like some quests and just want to get to the level where my character matures enough to really shine. My bard/fighter warchanter was one of those characters where at early levels was meh, then at higher levels really got fun to play.

I just think the issue is the mentality of the players and what they want out of the game. I for one, cant stand the necro series and wait till level 14+ to run them unless i see a group running them on elite.

[Borror0]

Mostly people are re rolling toons and want to level fast. THere will always be the "quickest route to 16", no matter if you change the xp tables. THen it would be WW, STK, Freshen the Poison, or whatever.

Not really, I like varying a little in quests... but it's not always easy to do so without going into low XP quests.

That's the real problem.

[miceelf88]

When I said that the shadow quests were like going to the dentist, I didn't mean they were hard, per se. Just not enjoyable. I find all of them incredibly boring. (AND hard or easy, depending on party makeup). There's just something about the repetitiveness of the quests and the limited number of tactics available that just sucks joy from the brightest day. For me.

[Emili]

You can probably tell by the favor on the toons in my sig I run every single quest to the point I know most by heart, and I know every single map, I think that's typical of everyone who plays as much ... While maybe I do some more then others as I can tell you mob and thier CR's which lay round the corner in those most traveled... but all in all I do not think there is a quest in the game I've not done at least of 15 times, maybe more, who knows I surely do not? I will tell you this... there is so much xp in this game it far out-weighs the caps ... I'm willing to bet if you did every quest normal/hard/elite you'd cap all nine character slots -

I had mentioned it before, I think it would be nice if the quests had more balance of xp/loot and really does not effect power gamers either... they know them all.

[Zenako]

When I said that the shadow quests were like going to the dentist, I didn't mean they were hard, per se. Just not enjoyable. I find all of them incredibly boring. (AND hard or easy, depending on party makeup). There's just something about the repetitiveness of the quests and the limited number of tactics available that just sucks joy from the brightest day. For me.

Not a problem, I often end up defending them to poeple claiming they are too hard???

As for repetitive...yup, and that is the BIGGEST knock against them. Shadow King...ugh...BUT when you really stop and think about it, what is perhaps the single most repetitive quest(s) series in the game. Tangleroot. I mean you run into the same dungeon, what is it, 7 times? and go a little farther each time.... But for some reason, very few players openly complain about TR being repetitive like parts of the Necro Quests are. What I have found thou, is if you have a decent group, many of the necro quests can go by a lot quicker if you can split up, ignore the trash chests along the way, and converge on the end boss if you want.

Personally I like to solo a lot of quests to spend some "smell the roses" time in each, if possible. To learn more about the nuances of the quests and pick up little features that might otherwise go unnoticed.

[Artagon]

Let's get back to topic a bit here folks, I'm not saying that each quest of equal level should have equal xp, I'm saying that the effort/reward ratio should be evaluated, not necessarily via xp, but also through named loot, etc.. If you look at, for example, Caverns of Korromar vs. Stormcleave... both lvl 8, and I'd say Caverns is a bit harder and longer to work with.. not just because of the undead, but because of all the hoops you jump through.. SC nets approximately 8k, CoK is... what.. 4k xp and a chance for sorta-obsolete loot.. so a longer quest of equal level gives LESS xp than the shorter one... and not just by a little. All I'm saying is that it would nice to be a power gamer without being buttonholed into the few quests that provide superior xp/loot/time/effort ratios. I again state that not everyone feels that you HAVE to do these levels to have fun, and I agree with them, I just want to be rewarded equally for stepping off the well-traveled paths.

[ahpook]

Why not?

To say that no quest should have its XP dropped is trying to claim that the original allocation was flawless for that quest. I don't know how that can be claimed and then point only at the low XP ones as being flawed. If the devs can make mistakes it seems obvious that they would make mistakes across the spectrum.

Look at it this way, is there enough XP in the game and is the levelling time fast enough? If so (and I believe that to be true) in order to raise up some quests you must lower others or you will put the total XP out of balance. I shudder at the thought of trying to bring everything up to StormCleave level.

[Borror0]

Look at it this way, is there enough XP in the game and is the levelling time fast enough? If so (and I believe that to be true) in order to raise up some quests you must lower others or you will put the total XP out of balance.

The total XP out of balance? That makes no sense.

There is more than enough XP to get 10 times to the cap, if not more. The total XP available in the game means nothing. As you said, the leveling is fast enough. Not too fast, that's for sure. You see tons of threads per week complaining about the "mid-level blues" because it's so hard to get a group. Really, XP in the mid levels should not be lowered.

[sigtrent]

I don't totaly agree with the symptoms you describe. ( I certainly go through many of the less popular quests both for fun and for favor.)

But I do agree with the general call to rebalance quest XP. Id say also quest level. Some of the quests are just much harder than others rated for the same level characters.

I'm not sure its the best ever use of a developers time. But they could always recruit the peanut gallery here or on their test servers to come up wtih a list of quests that are badly in need of some adjustment to make them more attractive.

[Zenako]

The total XP out of balance? That makes no sense.

There is more than enough XP to get 10 times to the cap, if not more. The total XP available in the game means nothing. As you said, the leveling is fast enough. Not too fast, that's for sure. You see tons of threads per week complaining about the "mid-level blues" because it's so hard to get a group. Really, XP in the mid levels should not be lowered.

BUt if you read most of those laments, it turns out that those having trouble are often (not always) but often, unwilling to start their own groups to try quests. THere are plenty of quests in those level ranges that could be run, but that is also the level when it becomes a lot harder to just twink and solo thru them. Levels 1 thru 6ish you can get by in a number of ways. Mid levels are where teamwork REALLY comes into play and those quests often reflect that need. Three quests come quickly to mind that are very hard to do solo, but fairly easy with a team: Guard Duty, Archer Point Defense and Gladewatch Outpost (2 5's and a 6). Without being willing to form a team via PUG or friends, that does make life a bit more restricted.

PS - Looked up Proof inthe Poison - Level 4 quest base EXP is 2596, the next highest level 4 quest has a base of 1867 (Part of STK) and you need to go up to a 7th level quest to find any that give you more EXP than Poison does....

[Borror0]

BUt if you read most of those laments, it turns out that those having trouble are often (not always) but often, unwilling to start their own groups to try quests.

True.

But you also see tons of requests for more mid level content in those threads.

[Cold_Stele]

Let's not forget that there are less Elite runs going on in PUGS now that the difficulty's been ramped up.

Less Elite runs, or Elite runs taking to longer to complete = less xp.

Ask around. Grinding xp IS NOT fun.

If it was quicker to level toons you'd see more people rolling/rerolling new ones and more activity on the servers...

You'd also see less dissatisfaction and complaints about nerfs/balance/character respec etc.

There's going to be a +5% xp trinket in Delera's. A nice start, but please let's take it a little further...

[Pellegro]

Perfect balance is impossible and there will always evolve "favorite" runs. Its endemic to the nature of the reroll-grind-reroll routine that the majority of the loyal userbase here plays.

The act of balancing takes time away from new content.

Don't get me wrong .. I would love for them to find a way to make less run content more appealing.

I'm just afraid this may not be the right approach.

I have no other suggestions, however, adn I commend the OP for giving this issue some thought because I do think its an issue.

[ahpook]

The total XP out of balance? That makes no sense.

Look at this way, right now, (please note I am making up numbers for demonstration purposes because I don't have them at hand) you go from 6th level to 9th level by running StormCleave 6 times and 10 other quests that don't give as good XP. if all quests become as good as storm cleave, you can run SC 4 times and another quest 4 times and get the same total XP. Levelling faster by running less content. I just don't think that the game needs faster levelling.

Perfect balance is impossible and there will always evolve "favorite" runs. Its endemic to the nature of the reroll-grind-reroll routine that the majority of the loyal userbase here plays.

Of course it is impossible. However, better balance is possible and likely not that difficult. Just because perfection is impossible, that is no reason to not try to make some small improvements.

[Borror0]

Levelling faster by running less content.

Actually no, they play in more different quests, so technicly they play more content.

[sirgog]

/signed.

Unless you play on weekends at US peak time, it's practically impossible to get a group for most quests below level 13 that are not one of the early harbor quests, STK, Delaras, TR, Gwylans, Tear of Dhakaan, Stormcleave, or the VONs.

That's a lot of content that's going pretty much unplayed at the moment.

Even rebalancing it so that other quests take over (say giving 3-barrel cove enough of an XP boost that it becomes the new Tangleroot) would IMO be a good thing, just so different quests get run into the ground for a while. After 3 months of not running it, I'm sure Stormcleave would start to become fun again.

[Jerevon]

Ok, I brought this up in another thread, but I feel that it deserves it's own thread so that the idea isn't lost.

More than new adventures, we need to see every single quest re-evaluated and the xp/loot/effort adjusted so that EVERY quest is EQUAL in terms of effort/xp/loot. Most of us know exactly which quests we are going to run into the ground as we level up, we have a specific set of a dozen quests or so which give the best xp in the least possible amount of time, examples would be stormcleave, WW, STK, Delara's etc.. Nobody runs the other hundred quests unless they are FORCED to in order to grind favor, or are perverse enough NOT to care about how fast we level up. I'm not saying there aren't people out there who feel that way, but heck, I'm a casual gamer and I STILL run those specific quests.. mostly because nobody wants to run the other flavorful quests. As a specific example. It takes a group of lvl 3 folks about one hour to complete STK, for a total xp gain of ~9k, if you run Freshen the Air 2x with the same party, it will take about the same amount of time, and you'll net about 4k xp. Would you say freshen the air is more difficult for a lvl 3 party to complete? I would. So for a little MORE effort, possibly a little less time, you get LESS THAN HALF the xp, and NO named rewards like STK (cloven-jaw warbeads to name one). If FtA gave you 3.5-4k xp for the run, wouldn't you run it? Here are a couple examples of when Dev's already made such a change. The Pit - challenging to the uninitiated, FUN if you know what you're doing. This quest netted the player approx. 3k when the mission first arrived in game FOR A LVL 8 QUEST. This quest takes approximately the same time as SC, and they changed the xp reward about a month after it's arrival to be equivalent to SC. If you haven't run this quest recently, maybe it's because you didn't know they fixed it. Go give it a try again, bring a guide, this quest is a BLAST. SirGog pointed out that the Shadow Crypt was also re-evaluated for xp in the prior thread this was mentioned. Honestly, I haven't run it yet, but now I'm going to.

I think if all quests were equal in xp/loot/effort ratio, there would be FAR fewer complaints about lack of content. I personally would probably become the master of the lesser known quests, because my groups would then be FRESH, there would be fewer ZERGERS (other than me, lol), and I wouldn't have to do the super well known stuff (besides, my favor would creep up there amazingly fast).

If anyone agrees, please sign this petition!

PS- Wouldn't this be easier to do than make 20 new quests? Wouldn't that free up resources to do other fun stuff in a mod? Mod 7 would be an amazing time for this to happen, as so many of us are going to be running back through the gamut of tried and true xp runs because the video of monks looks so bloody cool :P

I agree with the OP about fixing the XP/Loot tables. It is serious that there are only a few quests that are worth running because of the lousy loot tables. On a side note, I'm sick of hearing "the devs don't need to do this", it's the devs job to get on top of issues like this and fix them. Stuff like this needs to be fixed.

[FluffyCalico]

I think that XP should be revisted upward, not reduced.

Fact is, lots of complaints on these forums come from the 7-12 being boring, people having more trouble finding full groups. I don't eblieve there is really a problem with quests giving too much XP as much as there is a problem not giving enough. Threnal East 3 comes to mind, for a 15 minutes of pure all for less XP than most Harbor quest gives.

Kobold Assault is another one. More kobolds to fight than you've ever fought in a dungeon. One shrine, less XP than most quests.

Um 7-9 do C06, greymoon, house quests like the vampire, the 9 thernals, the 6 vons, TS, etc. 7-9 is actually very fast.

10-12 GH enough said 20K a run will level you fast.