Paladin Prestige Class

[llevenbaxx]

Look at the class in PnP. You will find one offensive ability, smite evil which has a very limited use both in frequency and in scope. Other than that all thier abilities are defenisvely oriented.

If the rangers companion is "O" then I guess so would the paladins mount. Turn Undead sounds far more offensive than defensive. Healing is in no way defensive, can go either way 100%(including LOH). So you have immunity to disease and fear and divine grace. Sounds more like pretty even to me, only slightly leaning tward defense.

Not quite sure where detect evil falls in there for you but I seemed to use it more in RPing than in actual combat.

Im trying to say you can in fact make a very viable offensive paladin in PnP albeit using various PrCs usually. I just like to put it out there because its such a common over the top perception without a ton of reason backing it up... just agree with what others have said that a very low offense melee isnt going to find much play in the DDO endgame.

[sephiroth1084]

While I agree that the exalted smite isn't too thrilling (it is kinda nice though), the changes I'd most like to see for the paladin are:
-Giving paladins Intimidate as a class skill (diplomacy in DDO is nothing like in PnP and therefore class skill lists should reflect DDO functionality rather than PnP flavor), since that would remove one need for paladins to multi-class
-Make Cha the paladin's casting stat, freeing up a tiny bit of MAD (interestingly, in more or less the same way that Wizards is correcting MAD across all classes in 4E)

[Emili]

Here is my viewpoint of this all...

1. In the guild we have 18 characters on roster where Paladin is the predominat class (pure and multi)...
2. Out of those five are of substantial level
3. Out of those three have seen the light of day in the last 3 weeks
   
   • My Amilia (because I run reaver with her - she was born the first day drow came out as a chain smiting boss killer build)
   • Tomien (Vizzini's pally for those of you from Khyber - he concentrated this little halfling in dragon marks and plays a decent support and healer)
   • Machinery in Motion (Tailen's Pally - a 28 point WF which was built very well and had stood the test of time over the mods)
   
   
4. As I speak here there are 18 (out of 58 active?) heroes online none of them on a pally.
5. There seems to be a fad developing towards halfling rogues - mostly due to the halfling love and love given the way of the assasin II.
6. As tempest came out I seen many a new tempest ranger built and many a ranged built playing around with AA and DWS.

While Pally is a decent class... This is a guild which just rolls - it puts up LFM's for anyclass till the last spot, and if that spot is not filled within 5 min or so it rock n rolls as is - will shortman anything, even most lvl appropriate elite quests without certain classes including healers. Among this walk of zerging where to them the quicker the quest is completed the more efficient they believe themselves to be the pally seems to take a back seat among their own builds... for the other builds/classes with more WoW factor in them. To them the game is strategy, the game is finish in new record time, they been arround long enough to know no class really matters but at the same time reaching the end entails mostly thought and good playing...

Will the pally love listed bring any interest to this class that I'll see my guildies playing pally's again or rolling them up? It's the latter how I would measure the success of that love - when I see new characters rolled by vets of a given class due to changes in features then I can call it love. It remains to be seen if these changes will entice plp to roll pallys or not as of yet however I see plenty heading towards the rogues for the new enhancements they received and yet noone saying - I'm going to build me a pally now.

[Geonis]

Wow, just read another 180+ post thread on Paladins. It seems this is a very hot topic. However, one issues I see over and over and over again is that the new enhancments are not enough... now before any reads no further and comments on that I in no way advocate one way or another on that issues...yet any way. The exhalted smites are two infrequent oweing to the fact they are one shot only. the rez abilities aren't needed etc. Having read all of this more then once one indisputable conclusion can be drawn. No one, sadly not even the devs it seems, knows where they wan't Paladins to go as a class. Some want to the enhancments and changes to smite to be bursts with cool downs like many shot (this would be going the dps route) (actually most if not all of us would like this), others want more spells added, and stll others seem to advocate being in the back role to everything is ok and the enhancemetns as they stand are ok. The Dev's with 2 polar opposite enhancement lines don't seem to know where they want to go with the Paladin either. With this in mind it seems that it is time to let the players decide much the same way bards can choose between warchanter, virtuoso and spellsinger. Thus I present two different, hopefully not over powered, Paladin prestige class enhancements.

Paladin Defender I: Your dedication to protecting the innocent has led to dedicate your prayers to becoming the last becon of hope when all else has failed. Your prayer were answered by your gods. You gain a permanent +1 to your BOG. Your power and holiness have seeped into your shield effectively doubling its base AC and Dr values. Your charisma modifier is multiplied by 1.5 for your saves now. You gain the defense stance ability.

Defensive Stance: Once per rest you may employ defensive stance. Your charisma modifier is added to your AC, your AC increase from blocking is doubled, and you have DR20. This effect lasts 30 seconds + your charimsa modifier x 5 seconds

Cost 6 AP, prereq of BOGIII, minimum level 12

Paladin Defender II: Adds another permanent +1 to you BOG. Defensive stance now useable twice per rest and lasts 30 seconds + charisma modifier x 10


Cost 2 AP, Minimum level 16, prereq of BOG IV

Paladin Captain: Your desire to destroy evil has led you to pray for the abilites to do so. Your prayers have been answered. The sheer terror you strike in beings of evil has led you to permanently add your charisma modifier to your attack and damage rolls. In addition your holiness radiates off of you and and creature of evil alignment suffers 2d6 holy damge on any hit they score upon you. Your save rolls are alos increase by 1.5 x charisma modifier.

In addition your gain the Righteous Sword ability

Once per rest you can enter a holy rage during this time your gain double your charisma modifier to hit and damage as well a temporary holy boost to Str and Con equal to 1/2 your charisma modifier. This effect lasts 30 sec + charisma modifier x 5 seconds.

AP cost 6, minimum level 12 pre req extra smite evil III

Paladin captain II: Your charisma modifier to attack and damage is now 1.50 and you can use righteous sword twice per rest and exten the duratin by 30 + charisma modifier x 10 seconds

AP 2, minimum level 16

Not perfect I am sure but feel free to complain, flame, praise etc. Just my two cent in trying to help.

Raven

I like both.

The Defender feels right for a defensive Paladin, and doesn't seem overpowered to me, though I would probably change the AP costs to 4 per level.

The Captain line is a bit off though, as double Cha mod to hit and damage is +16 for my Paladin. A bit overpowered, but I do like the direction.

[Asirin]

ok......

Paladins get extra smites, extra lay on hands, more turn attempts, spells, higher AC enhancements and access to the divine enhancments clerics get. Barb DR is pointless at high level unless your using the boost for DR 15. At high levels stoneskin or even adamantine armor will sub for a Barbs DR.

My closing point is that all classes get tidbits along the way to 16, and yes some classes get a few jump starts but Paladins are balanced for what they should be. Those who think they need to be more uber are those IMO who are wanting to lead the kill counts and out DPS the fighters/Barbarians out there who don't have all the bells and whistles that Paladins are given.

/signed

By the way you forgot to mention those absolutely insane saving throws.........they matter alot more than one would think.

[ChildrenofBodom]

/signed

By the way you forgot to mention those absolutely insane saving throws.........they matter alot more than one would think.

Only save that matters a lot in DDO is reflex. You can definately get by with a decent fort and will.

[LOUDRampart]

Also the abilities of fighters to surpass them defensively and offensively at the same time has made the paladin kinda gimp, no offense.

If built right a paladin should be equal or better then a fighter defensively. Of course many players gimp this and end up with a worse off defensive ability then a well built fighter.

Offensively a fighter always seems out perform a pali.

When thinking of these things, then next question becomes: Why play a pali as a pure class? Other then RPing, I can't think of any reason. (And my first capped character in Mod 5 was a Pali. Now I don't even think about him... which I find quite sad.) A friend of my just unlocked his 32 point builds and asked me what I thought of the Pali class. My response: Run away and hide... find something else to build until this game does something for them.

[axebender]

thread closed paladins are dooooomed........lol...jk all this new pally love is very underwhelming so far. waiting too see what new spells they are implementing as of now the new enhancements are not worth it..unless they fix smite too pay on roll vs pay on a swing...they rez enhancements are a waist..i have a ring on my pally and i can just umd a scroll..sure u can rez at more health but not really a viable reason too take it..with these new enhancements we still look like a second rate slayer of evil vs the ultimate smiters of evil we should be..i just want smite fixed everything else DPS related i can live without. a paladins most powerfull tool should be his smite

[Rason]

I know it has been mentioned previously but to me, it depends on how you play your paladin. With the bonuses they get, I play my paladin as a defensive pally with the saves and armour class.

I like the enhancements that are coming as I don't plan on doing heaps of DPS but I will enjoy what they are presenting with the Sacrificial enhancement.

This is not to say though that I don't like the idea of the Prestige Enhancement line with requirements.. that I think I would love as it brings the game more inline with Prestige requirements

Either way, I'll still be playing Avabere contently

[kruggar]

Paladins are still one of the best survival classes in DDO.

If built correctly they can stacd amazing AC, HPs, saves, do a reasonable dmg, ok not like a figther or barbarian but u take real less dmg then them.

And is one ofthe best solo classes in the game.