Post Mod-6 Shaman: Dwarven BattleCleric

[Grenfell]

Mod5 started the shift, and Mod6 completes the changes the paradigm for the warrior priests of DDO. Even up to Gianthold, I felt that the sword or axe wielding clerics were comfortably superior to other builds in terms of efficiency and effectiveness. Mod5 brought us the undead quests where feats such as Improved Crit: Slash were not near as effective. With Mod6, we have extremely inflated mob HP, very serious DR on mobs, enormous attack bonuses on mob To Hit, and other mechanics (like teleporting devils) that makes raw DPS via weapons far less appealing for the battle cleric.

At the same time, cleric spellcasting is at an all time high in utility. Blade Barrier is probably the best DPS spell in the game right now; Destruction and Banishment are both extraordinarily useful (if you can blast through the SR), and healing is truly at a premium in places like The Shroud or Running With Devils elite.

Nonetheless, there is still very much a place for the fighting priest -- and this is the build I would run (and will be, as soon as my Fred timers are up on all the feat swapping I have to do) post Mod6.

The Shaman: Post Mod-6
Level 16 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(1 Paladin / 15 Cleric)

Strength 14 +6 item = 20 (+5)
Dexterity 8
Constitution 18 +2 enh +6 item = 26 (+8)
Intelligence 8 (1 skill pt/lvl)
Wisdom 18 +4 lvls +3 enh +1 tome +6 item = 32 (+11)
Charisma 6

You may put your +2 favor tome into either Str or Con, depending on your preference.

HP:
030 Heroic + Draconic
010 Pal 1
120 Clr 15
128 Con bonus
018 Toughness
050 Dwarven Toughness
018 Minos Legens
030 Greater False Life
---------------------
404 HP

SP:
080 Magical Training
675 Cleric 15
264 Wis bonus, cleric
110 Wis bonus, paladin
110 EotZ IV
015 Dwarven Faith I
150 Wiz VI
-------------
1404 SP

Skills: 1 pt/lvl, so put enough to tumble in armor, and rest into Jump. With Quicken, you won't be needing Concentration skill.

Feats:
1 Empower Healing
3 Extend <-- this could change to Empower once you're high enough level and don't care to extend things.
6 Toughness
9 Quicken
12 Maximize
15 Improved Crit: Piercing

Enhancements:
[dwarf] - Constitution (Dwarven) I (2)
[dwarf] - Constitution (Dwarven) II (4)
[dwarf] - Faith I (1)
[dwarf] - Spell Defense I (1)
[dwarf] - Spell Defense II (2)
[dwarf] - Toughness (Dwarven) I (1)
[dwarf] - Toughness (Dwarven) II (2)
[dwarf] - Toughness (Dwarven) III (3)
[dwarf] - Toughness (Dwarven) IV (4)
[cleric] - Energy of the Zealot I (1)
[cleric] - Energy of the Zealot II (2)
[cleric] - Energy of the Zealot III (3)
[cleric] - Energy of the Zealot IV (4)
[cleric] - Life Magic I (1)
[cleric] - Life Magic II (2)
[cleric] - Life Magic III (3)
[cleric] - Life Magic IV (4)
[cleric] - Prayer of Life I (1)
[cleric] - Prayer of Life II (2)
[cleric] - Prayer of Life III (3)
[cleric] - Wand Mastery I (1)
[cleric] - Wand Mastery II (2)
[cleric] - Wand Mastery III (3)
[cleric] - Wisdom I (2)
[cleric] - Wisdom II (4)
[cleric] - Wisdom III (6)

Possible Gear Loadout: (Going with what I have and can get; YMMV)
Head: Minos Legens
Eyes: Greensteel Goggles (pos/neg -- Wiz VI, Poison/fear Immunity, Wisdom 6)
Neck: Con 6
Trinket: Head of GF/Featherfall
Cloak: Stormreaver Napkin
Body: Fearsome FP (Blue Dragonscale is ideal)
Bracer: Str 6
Gloves: Gauntlets of Eternity
Belt: GFL
Boots: Striding/Boots of Innocent
Ring1: Dex 6 (not that important -- if you can get Greater Dev VI in here, that'd be great)
Ring2: OPEN SLOT (Resist +4 would be ideal)

To Hit:
12 BAB
05 Str bonus
03 Divine Favor
04 Divine Power BAB adjustment
05 Weapon
04 Greater Hero
----------------
+33 on first swing

However, you are likely to be using something like a +3 puncturing rapier, so figure on +30 or so on the first swing. Of course, you can use Dwarven Axes, Greataxes, etc. as well if the situation calls for them.

AC is unimportant at the high end, but during levelling up, between Fullplate, Shield, Shield of Faith, etc., you should be fine. For example, say around lvl 6:

10 Base
12 Armor (+4 FP)
1 Dex (with House P buffs)
06 Shield (+4 HSS)
03 Shield of Faith
03 Barkskin potion
01 Paladin base aura
--------------------
36 AC

That's pretty solid at lvl 6. At 9, can go with Chaosguarde and +5 armors for 40ish AC.

Notes:

The Shaman is built for relevancy throughout its career. In the early game, the level of paladin allows for all martial weapon usage, making the early levels a breeze. In the midgame, the rocksolid heals, the offensive casting (Greater Command FTW) combined with reasonable beatdown ability (Divine Power @ lvl 8) creates a formidable battlecleric. In the endgame, the max Wisdom, Maximized Blade Barriers, etc. create an excellent casting/healing cleric platform -- that can still wade into the fighting game, but using puncturing rapiers, banishers, smiters, and vorpals.

The #1 variation I could see is to skip the level of Paladin -- you lose the usage of martial weapons, but become a stronger casting cleric. In such a case, IC: Piercing should be replaced by Empower Spell. I would advise against it only because some of the vale mobs have truly amazing SR, and without spell pen feats and enhancements, I believe it is more cost-effective to use things like banishing rapiers/ss/daggers (if you own them, of course).

The bias against battleclerics is wholly unwarranted, and frankly unreasonable. Avoid such groups, avoid such people, and show 'em who's boss.

Again, as always, playing this sort of cleric requires skill and focus -- but you really can do it all.

/gren

[Impaqt]

The #1 variation I could see is to skip the level of Paladin -- you lose the usage of martial weapons, but become a stronger casting cleric. In such a case, IC: Piercing should be replaced by Empower Spell. I would advise against it only because some of the vale mobs have truly amazing SR, and without spell pen feats and enhancements, I believe it is more cost-effective to use things like banishing rapiers/ss/daggers (if you own them, of course).

The bias against battleclerics is wholly unwarranted, and frankly unreasonable. Avoid such groups, avoid such people, and show 'em who's boss.

Again, as always, playing this sort of cleric requires skill and focus -- but you really can do it all.

/gren

There arent many mobs in the vale (ok... there arent ANY is probobly more accuracte) that will survive more than a couple passes through a Maximized/Empowered/Superior Potencied Blade Barrier.

[Nick_RC]

Hey gren nice build - you and I are thinkin along the same lines again with regard to the changing roll of the cleric. I had similar thoughts but went 2wf for extra melee clout w/ dual vorpals/ w/p/banishers. Took the bard level to give me weapon proficiencies and umd. Now if i could only figure out how to raise my hp...he has more offensive melle capability than urs but no where near as many hp so id ave to be v careflu with him. If you get a chance can you look it over and lemme knw what ya think.

N

[Lyletuba]

I'm working on a different Cleric build myself but always helpful to read a Grenfell build post.
One thing I see repeated often is this:

With Quicken, you won't be needing Concentration skill.

But Quicken doesn't work on Scrolls (Wands don't get interrupted, I assume) and it adds to the cost of casting.
Do you plan on having Quicken 'on' all the time and not casting off scrolls except out-of-combat?
Do you have enough SP so that you won't need to rely on scrolls during combat?

[Grenfell]

I'm working on a different Cleric build myself but always helpful to read a Grenfell build post.
One thing I see repeated often is this:


But Quicken doesn't work on Scrolls (Wands don't get interrupted, I assume) and it adds to the cost of casting.
Do you plan on having Quicken 'on' all the time and not casting off scrolls except out-of-combat?
Do you have enough SP so that you won't need to rely on scrolls during combat?

What I've been finding on my current cleric (like i said, this variant won't be in place for a couple of weeks, due to all the feat swapping) is that if I have to use a scroll, I need to get out of combat or not be in combat in the first place. If I'm in a healbot mode (e.g., Shroud part 4), then quicken may or may not be necessary.

Plus... what I'm finding is that Concentration almost doesn't seem to matter. I think I have something north of 30 Concentration on my Dwarf; if I get hit by some Orthon or some such, I'm getting interrupted. So even with maxed Concentration, I'm finding that Quicken is necessary in many key quests (Shroud part 2, Vale quests, etc.).

I do plan on having Quicken on all the time, yes (except when buffing I guess), when fighting/healing.

/gren

[Impaqt]

With Paly AUras getting better (+3,6,9 COncentration with +3 Available to a 1 Lewvel Paly splash)), +15 Items getting more Common, and High Con on Dwarfs, Concentration is becoming quite effective.


My Dwarf Build

19 Ranks
15 Item
7 CON
3 AUra
---
44 Con
2 Head of GOod Fortune
4 Greater Heroism
---
50

Not to mention if I'm StoneSkinned that dR Counts twoards reducing damage....

I can reguarlly get hit got 60+ Points of damage and not get my conentration broken.

[CrimsonEagle]

With Paly AUras getting better (+3,6,9 COncentration with +3 Available to a 1 Lewvel Paly splash)), +15 Items getting more Common, and High Con on Dwarfs, Concentration is becoming quite effective.


My Dwarf Build

19 Ranks
15 Item
7 CON
3 AUra
---
44 Con
2 Head of GOod Fortune
4 Greater Heroism
---
50

Not to mention if I'm StoneSkinned that dR Counts twoards reducing damage....

I can reguarlly get hit got 60+ Points of damage and not get my conentration broken.

Difference in opinion possibly, but I will never again put a point into concentration even if I could get it up to the point of my spells not getting interupted.

When I took quicken, before I really knew how it worked, I was thinking I would use it on rare occasions, in big fights. Now, I am addicted to the faster casting and unless buffing, it never comes off.

Do you have to have it? Well....seeing what you have shown, (never even tried to max it out), I guess you dont.....unless you are like me and have become a faster casting junky

[Strykersz]

Is there any reason not to swap emp. healing and toughness? Emp. healing doesn't become cost effective until higher level and toughness is most effective at low level(when it makes up a larger % of your hp).

[Impaqt]

Difference in opinion possibly, but I will never again put a point into concentration even if I could get it up to the point of my spells not getting interupted.

When I took quicken, before I really knew how it worked, I was thinking I would use it on rare occasions, in big fights. Now, I am addicted to the faster casting and unless buffing, it never comes off.

Do you have to have it? Well....seeing what you have shown, (never even tried to max it out), I guess you dont.....unless you are like me and have become a faster casting junky

I Absolutely have Quicken on all My CLerics. WOuldnt build one without it.

But with all the complaining clerics do about money, why would you want to risk the chance of having your Heal and Raise dead scrolls constantly interupted?

[CrimsonEagle]

I Absolutely have Quicken on all My CLerics. WOuldnt build one without it.

But with all the complaining clerics do about money, why would you want to risk the chance of having your Heal and Raise dead scrolls constantly interupted?

Bah!!!! If they would heal themselves......but thats another topic.

Now....JUMP....JUMP is where I will put it!!!! I hate not being able to jump!!!

LOL.

[Impaqt]

Bah!!!! If they would heal themselves......but thats another topic.

Now....JUMP....JUMP is where I will put it!!!! I hate not being able to jump!!!

LOL.

jump.... Useless.... Stop wearing reduculosly heavy armor that does you no good, get a pair of Jump boots, a Clicky, and dont gimp your STR.....

My clerics can get toa 30 or so Jump without putting a Single point into it.

Balance..... Now theres a Skill that I could agree with.. But still, with a Balance Item, Your getting up pretty quick and not gettin thrown around inthe titan.

[Blazer]

Now....JUMP....JUMP is where I will put it!!!! I hate not being able to jump!!!

LOL.

LOL, yeah, that's why when I rebuilt my human cleric as a 32pts, I went with 10 INT. Max ranks in Concentration, Balance, and Jump. Balance and Jump are at half ranks, obviously, but they're both at a comfortable level (with Gyro Boots and a Jump ring -yummy). Makes life nice for when I'm boucing around mobs flinging spells.

[Blazer]

jump.... Useless.... Stop wearing reduculosly heavy armor that does you no good, get a pair of Jump boots, a Clicky, and dont gimp your STR.....

My clerics can get toa 30 or so Jump without putting a Single point into it.

Balance..... Now theres a Skill that I could agree with.. But still, with a Balance Item, Your getting up pretty quick and not gettin thrown around inthe titan.

Agreed with the caveat "if you're not going human". The extra skill point humans get lends itself nicely to helping out a poor balance or jump skill. My cleric hits 30 Jump in heavy armor and still has a +20 to balance (thanks Gyroscopic Boots!).

[D'rin]

Nice work Gren. Interesting changes. When I made my cleric I took the shaman template and altered it thinking of what changes might come. It was the most foresight I have ever had in this game. My cleric looks almost exactly like yours. Except I don't have improved crit piercing.

The build was fun to play from level one all the way through. I could solo alot when low level and also run with groups when i wanted. I could always get a group and actually only had one run in with someone complaining about needing a heal. It was of course a sorcerer that was at half health and no mobs around, but that is another rant all together.

I do find that in the vale part one and two you can still do just fine with greater bane weapons and buffs if you want to lay the smack down on some trash mobs. Just vorpal the orthons or just wound them if your str/damage is high enough. Now that I have the greensteel goggles with +6 wis and the sp buff I may swap some feats but not sure yet. I may swap extend for empower just to make blade barriers that much more amazing.

I don't think you gain a lot from going pure cleric actually. Your +1 dc does not make that much differance with the SR mob have. You would need the spell pen feats to really make a differance. And having the martial weapons early on is really nice to be able to solo early on and also to show up all the fighters at low level.

[Grenfell]

Is there any reason not to swap emp. healing and toughness? Emp. healing doesn't become cost effective until higher level and toughness is most effective at low level(when it makes up a larger % of your hp).

No, not really. I'm just used to putting in Emp Healing @ lvl 1 for cleric builds, but the order you take the feats is pretty flexible. I just don't bother with Maximize until I get Blade Barrier @ 12, but that's flexible too.

/gren

[Grenfell]

Nice work Gren. Interesting changes. When I made my cleric I took the shaman template and altered it thinking of what changes might come. It was the most foresight I have ever had in this game. My cleric looks almost exactly like yours. Except I don't have improved crit piercing.

The build was fun to play from level one all the way through. I could solo alot when low level and also run with groups when i wanted. I could always get a group and actually only had one run in with someone complaining about needing a heal. It was of course a sorcerer that was at half health and no mobs around, but that is another rant all together.

I do find that in the vale part one and two you can still do just fine with greater bane weapons and buffs if you want to lay the smack down on some trash mobs. Just vorpal the orthons or just wound them if your str/damage is high enough. Now that I have the greensteel goggles with +6 wis and the sp buff I may swap some feats but not sure yet. I may swap extend for empower just to make blade barriers that much more amazing.

I don't think you gain a lot from going pure cleric actually. Your +1 dc does not make that much differance with the SR mob have. You would need the spell pen feats to really make a differance. And having the martial weapons early on is really nice to be able to solo early on and also to show up all the fighters at low level.

Yeah; I think the Extend --> Empower trade makes sense. I no longer extend that much -- really, only Blade Barrier gets extended on a regular basis. And Empower means you do'nt have to extend BB.

But I would recommend going with IC: Piercing. You can still vorpal with IC: Pierce, after all, but now you get puncturing, banishing and all that yumminess. I just need another 9 W/P weapons and I'll be set on my melees, including this cleric. LOL.

/gren

[D'rin]

I just need another 9 W/P weapons and I'll be set on my melees, including this cleric. LOL.

/gren

My problem exactly. Between all of my TWF rangers I need a ton of w/p weapons. Time to farm 1-3 shroud on elite I guess.

[demosthenes]

Gren,

How would you lay out this build with only 28 pt or drow available?

[Strykersz]

How would you lay out this build with only 28 pt or drow available?

I can't imagine the answer will be anything other than 16 con.

[Grenfell]

Gren,

How would you lay out this build with only 28 pt or drow available?

I'd just reduce Con on the base Dwarf platform. With a 28pter, you can get 14/16/18 Str/Con/Wis.

18 hp isn't gonna change the build.

This does not work with Drow; you just don't have the HP's to be a battlecleric post Mod6.

/gren