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  1. #21
    Community Member ~True_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantumFX View Post
    I never assumed you were making a rogue.

    But if you're going to emulate the shadowdancer PrC you're going to need at least 16 levels of rogue for the imp. Evasion, Defensive roll and Slippery mind. Which means you have 4 levels to play around with. Dragonmarks, for good or ill, can be affected by metamagics. Trying to fit in a spellcasting class to take advantage of extend spell feat works to your advantage here. Chances are we'll never see any enhancements/items that affect dragonmarks. (Dragonmarks don't help dwarves so the enhancement dev pretends they don't exist.)

    It sounds like you're trying to use Shadowwalk to emulate the Shadowjump ability. The only problem is that shadowwalk doesn't do a good job emulating shadow jump. It's basically a haste and displace that goes away the minute you attack something. You already have displacement and can sow chaos with invisibility so why not focus on that aspect?
    Ah... now I can see. Good points! I will look at this more closely. Already at level 3 her stealth is such that she can walk past just about every baddie and never once get found out...until she goes in for the kill.

    You say that shadowwalk goes away the min you attack something, but that is why she would use it to retreat. Jump into shadowwalk and be outta there before anyone would know. If I understand, unlike invisibility, monsters that can detect invisibility cannot detect someone in shadowwalk....right? or No?

    CuChoinneach Deathslayer Knight of the Undying Court

  2. #22
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cap_Man View Post
    Many of the posters here have recommended dropping Precision. I have it on my rogue and where it does come in useful is when I'm up against a high cr mob (not the red names), then I will hit precision and switch to stat damagers as this makes it easier to land a hit and I draw less aggro (the stat damage is unaffected by precision).
    Actaully stat damage will be directly effected by using precision. For wounding to work - you have to deal at least 1 point of damage, if you use precision against anything with DR - there is a very good chance your dealing 0 dmg with your wounder - since its likely a +1/2 weapon with no special quality.

    Now back years ago this wasn't the case and using precision and wounders against high DR/AC mobs like elementals was a great choice, but thats not longer the way.

    Nowdays mobs AC have been nerfed across the board and DR has been increased.. So it makes much more sense to use power attack then precision. For many mobs you'll need it to cut thru the dr and still deal wounding damage.

    So yea drop precision for power attack.

  3. #23
    Community Member Cap_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Actaully stat damage will be directly effected by using precision. For wounding to work - you have to deal at least 1 point of damage, if you use precision against anything with DR - there is a very good chance your dealing 0 dmg with your wounder - since its likely a +1/2 weapon with no special quality.
    Well assuming that Sneak Attacks and DR work the same in DDO as in PnP, your sneak attack damage is added to your weapon damage for the purpose of bypassing DR.

    I'm still not positive if the extra + to hit is added to the confirm crits but if it does then that's another good reason to keep it and use it with banishers, vorpals etc. where you are trying more for the effect than the damage.

    All that said, if there was another feat that I wanted to get, Precision would be the first to be swapped out. I found it worked very well in GiantHold with the stat damagers, less so in the Vale. I do find I am using it less and less these days.

    Ya know, I wish there was a way to save the combat log or increase the buffer size. I would have a lot better understanding of these things if I could review the history. By the time a quest is over and the group disbands most if not all of the combat log is lost.

    To the OP. Sorry about going off on a tangent here. I'll stop posting now.

  4. #24
    Hero QuantumFX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by True Knight View Post
    Ah... now I can see. Good points! I will look at this more closely. Already at level 3 her stealth is such that she can walk past just about every baddie and never once get found out...until she goes in for the kill.

    You say that shadowwalk goes away the min you attack something, but that is why she would use it to retreat. Jump into shadowwalk and be outta there before anyone would know. If I understand, unlike invisibility, monsters that can detect invisibility cannot detect someone in shadowwalk....right? or No?
    If you really want to see what stealth can get you go to YouTube and look for videos by Ghoste (aka Arcane Construct on YouTube.) You'll be amazed what you can do with the stealth and invisibility combo. I was using some of the techniques in Purge the Fallen Shrine last night with a bad PuG when I realized: I could solo it with 2 of my rangers through simple stealth bodypulling...

    I'd have to do some testing on whether shadowwalk will bypass See Invisibility. I was playing around with scrolls to see if it was worth it for Malrani (see sig). The only tactical use I could find was for being a combat medic or running past stuff in landscape areas. (Though invisibility will accomplish the same thing in wilderness areas.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Actaully stat damage will be directly effected by using precision. For wounding to work - you have to deal at least 1 point of damage, if you use precision against anything with DR - there is a very good chance your dealing 0 dmg with your wounder - since its likely a +1/2 weapon with no special quality.

    Now back years ago this wasn't the case and using precision and wounders against high DR/AC mobs like elementals was a great choice, but thats not longer the way.

    Nowdays mobs AC have been nerfed across the board and DR has been increased.. So it makes much more sense to use power attack then precision. For many mobs you'll need it to cut thru the dr and still deal wounding damage.

    So yea drop precision for power attack.
    Shade has posted good advice for a barbarian.

    However for a rogue:
    - Sneak attack damage will allow you to bypass DR.
    - Puncturing, which is way more effective than wounding if you have Improved Crit, isn't affected by DR but does need a confirmed crit roll.
    - Depending on your subtle backstabber enhancement level it can help you avoid over damaging opponents. If you're in a group that can't keep the hate on someone else this can be a lifesaver.
    Last edited by QuantumFX; 04-03-2008 at 03:03 PM.
    Things worthy of Standing Stone going EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on.:
    • Epic and Legendary Mysterious ring upgrades, please.
    • Change the stack size of filigree in the shared bank to 50. The 5 stack makes the shared bank worthless for storing filigree in a human usable manner.
    • Fixing why I don't connect to the chat server for 5 minutes when I log into a game world.
    • Fixing the wonky Lightning Sphere and Tactical Det firing by converting them to use alchemist spell arcing.
    • Redoing the drop rates of tomes in generic and raid loot tables.

  5. #25
    Founder ghale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantumFX View Post

    Shade has posted good advice for a barbarian.

    However for a rogue:
    - Sneak attack damage will allow you to bypass DR.
    - Puncturing, which is way more effective than wounding if you have Improved Crit, isn't affected by DR but does need a confirmed crit roll.
    - Depending on your subtle backstabber enhancement level it can help you avoid over damaging opponents. If you're in a group that can't keep the hate on someone else this can be a lifesaver.
    Not to speak for Shade but he could have been referring to wounding being better for elementals as it will still affect them while puncturing does not. As you won't get sneak attack damage to help bypass their DR, having power attack for those mobs could be more helpful as a low-str rogue.

  6. #26
    Hero QuantumFX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghale View Post
    wounding being better for elementals as it will still affect them while puncturing does not.
    Actually that's incorrect as well. Puncturing is a burst effect and isn't blocked by fortification. It does work on elementals even though neither wounding or puncturing should work on them.
    Things worthy of Standing Stone going EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on.:
    • Epic and Legendary Mysterious ring upgrades, please.
    • Change the stack size of filigree in the shared bank to 50. The 5 stack makes the shared bank worthless for storing filigree in a human usable manner.
    • Fixing why I don't connect to the chat server for 5 minutes when I log into a game world.
    • Fixing the wonky Lightning Sphere and Tactical Det firing by converting them to use alchemist spell arcing.
    • Redoing the drop rates of tomes in generic and raid loot tables.

  7. #27
    Founder ghale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantumFX View Post
    Actually that's incorrect as well. Puncturing is a burst effect and isn't blocked by fortification. It does work on elementals even though neither wounding or puncturing should work on them.
    That's what I get for listening to that noob Illuminati then .

  8. #28
    Hero QuantumFX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghale View Post
    That's what I get for listening to that noob Illuminati then .
    If you want to see something really shocking check out the P&P description of puncturing in the online d20 SRD. I feel like my elf rangers have really been exploiting...
    Things worthy of Standing Stone going EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on.:
    • Epic and Legendary Mysterious ring upgrades, please.
    • Change the stack size of filigree in the shared bank to 50. The 5 stack makes the shared bank worthless for storing filigree in a human usable manner.
    • Fixing why I don't connect to the chat server for 5 minutes when I log into a game world.
    • Fixing the wonky Lightning Sphere and Tactical Det firing by converting them to use alchemist spell arcing.
    • Redoing the drop rates of tomes in generic and raid loot tables.

  9. #29
    Community Member ~True_Knight's Avatar
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    OK, made a new revision based on constructive suggestions and here is what I came up with.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.85
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
     Keiriadancer  Shadowdancer
    Level 16 True Neutral Elf Female
    (4 Fighter \ 11 Rogue \ 1 Wizard) 
    Hit Points: 130
    Spell Points: 150 
    BAB: 12\12\17\22
    Fortitude: 7
    Reflex: 14
    Will: 6
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Stats          Modified Stats
    Abilities        (Level 1)             (Level 16)
    Strength             13                    14
    Dexterity            18                    22
    Constitution         10                    10
    Intelligence         14                    14
    Wisdom               11                    11
    Charisma              8                     8
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
    Balance               8                    18
    Bluff                -1                     1
    Concentration         0                     4
    Diplomacy            -1                    -1
    Disable Device        6                    16
    Haggle               -1                    -1
    Heal                  0                     0
    Hide                  8                    26.5
    Intimidate           -1                    -1
    Jump                  5                    18
    Listen                4                    18
    Move Silently         8                    25
    Open Lock             8                    18
    Perform              n/a                   n/a
    Repair                2                     2
    Search                6                    16
    Spot                  4                    13
    Swim                  1                     2
    Tumble                8                    13
    Use Magic Device     n/a                   18
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Elf Melee Damage I
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
    
    Level 2 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    
    Level 3 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
    
    Level 4 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Elf Melee Attack I
    
    Level 5 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    
    Level 6 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow
    
    Level 7 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    Level 8 (Wizard)
    Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Shadow
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Elf Melee Damage II
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark II
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide II
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II
    
    Level 11 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Elf Melee Attack II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Way of the Assassin I
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking III
    
    Level 15 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV

    CuChoinneach Deathslayer Knight of the Undying Court

  10. #30
    Founder ghale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by True Knight View Post
    OK, made a new revision based on constructive suggestions and here is what I came up with.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.85
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
     Keiriadancer  Shadowdancer
    Level 16 True Neutral Elf Female
    (4 Fighter \ 11 Rogue \ 1 Wizard) 
    Hit Points: 130
    Spell Points: 150 
    BAB: 12\12\17\22
    Fortitude: 7
    Reflex: 14
    Will: 6
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Stats          Modified Stats
    Abilities        (Level 1)             (Level 16)
    Strength             13                    14
    Dexterity            18                    22
    Constitution         10                    10
    Intelligence         14                    14
    Wisdom               11                    11
    Charisma              8                     8
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
    Balance               8                    18
    Bluff                -1                     1
    Concentration         0                     4
    Diplomacy            -1                    -1
    Disable Device        6                    16
    Haggle               -1                    -1
    Heal                  0                     0
    Hide                  8                    26.5
    Intimidate           -1                    -1
    Jump                  5                    18
    Listen                4                    18
    Move Silently         8                    25
    Open Lock             8                    18
    Perform              n/a                   n/a
    Repair                2                     2
    Search                6                    16
    Spot                  4                    13
    Swim                  1                     2
    Tumble                8                    13
    Use Magic Device     n/a                   18
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Elf Melee Damage I
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
    
    Level 2 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    
    Level 3 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
    
    Level 4 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Elf Melee Attack I
    
    Level 5 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    
    Level 6 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow
    
    Level 7 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    Level 8 (Wizard)
    Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Shadow
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Elf Melee Damage II
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark II
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide II
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II
    
    Level 11 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Elf Melee Attack II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Way of the Assassin I
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking III
    
    Level 15 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV

    That one wizard level is going to cast you way of the assassin 2, which I thought was the whole point? Who knows when the next level cap will be :l

  11. #31
    Community Member Master_of_None's Avatar
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    Taking that many fighter levels in a row is going to make it tough to keep up your skills. I'd suggest considering throwing in a rogue level in between so you're not too far behind. It could make dealing with traps at those levels difficult, especially if you don't have the best gear.
    知其不可而為之

  12. #32
    Community Member ~True_Knight's Avatar
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    Ok, changes I have made. Dumped PA...it just isn't worth enough to be effective. It takes away from attack, and attack is exactly what this build needs the most. And besides, because of enhancements she is picking up all of Elf Melee Damage and Elf Melee Attack... so she should be more than set on attack and damage and I'm think she will use a rapier and at lease a +2 or higher backstabbing dagger in off hand (or a seeker or stat damage dagger). So no to PA. I interspaced the levels between rogue and fighter and I also dropped a level of fighter and gained a level of rouge...gained more backstab and will be set for WotAII when it's made available. Opted for quickdraw in order to have the quick change of weapons available. She will keep the level of wiz to give her an edge in UMD and extend for her Dragonmarks.

    So here is the build:

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.85
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
     Keiria  Shadowdancer
    Level 16 True Neutral Elf Female
    (3 Fighter \ 12 Rogue \ 1 Wizard) 
    Hit Points: 126
    Spell Points: 150 
    BAB: 12\12\17\22
    Fortitude: 7
    Reflex: 15
    Will: 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Stats          Modified Stats
    Abilities        (Level 1)             (Level 16)
    Strength             13                    13
    Dexterity            18                    22
    Constitution         10                    10
    Intelligence         14                    14
    Wisdom               11                    11
    Charisma              8                     8
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
    Balance               8                    15
    Bluff                -1                     1
    Concentration         0                     4
    Diplomacy            -1                    -1
    Disable Device        6                    15
    Haggle               -1                    -1
    Heal                  0                     0
    Hide                  8                    28.5
    Intimidate           -1                    -1
    Jump                  5                    16
    Listen                4                    18
    Move Silently         8                    28
    Open Lock             8                    18
    Perform              n/a                   n/a
    Repair                2                     2
    Search                6                    19
    Spot                  4                    16
    Swim                  1                     1
    Tumble                8                    16
    Use Magic Device     n/a                   18
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Elf Melee Damage I
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
    
    Level 2 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    
    Level 3 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Finesse
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
    Enhancement: Rogue Search I
    Enhancement: Rogue Spot I
    
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Elf Melee Attack I
    
    Level 5 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Quick Draw
    
    Level 6 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark II
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide II
    
    Level 7 (Fighter)
    Enhancement: Elf Melee Damage II
    
    Level 8 (Wizard)
    Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Elf Melee Attack II
    
    Level 11 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Way of the Assassin I
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Shadow
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking III
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber III
    
    Level 15 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
    Last edited by True Knight; 04-06-2008 at 01:41 PM.

    CuChoinneach Deathslayer Knight of the Undying Court

  13. #33
    Community Member Stealthbr's Avatar
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    When cap goes up though, do you plan on taking a 4th level of fighter? If not, go rogue instead of your 3rd level of fighter unless you want the .25 BAB.

  14. #34
    The Hatchery GeneralDiomedes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantumFX View Post
    I was using some of the techniques in Purge the Fallen Shrine last night with a bad PuG when I realized: I could solo it with 2 of my rangers through simple stealth bodypulling...
    Just don't get your move silently too high or they can no longer hear you and it won't work. My 0 stealth Sorc can still body pull, while my very stealthy Ranger no longer can unless they are vermin or undead.
    Server Sarlona / MST / Guild Enslaved / Characters Ionos, Cydekik, Xalavan, Rodessa, Hethrow, Ramsteen

  15. #35
    Community Member ~True_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbr View Post
    When cap goes up though, do you plan on taking a 4th level of fighter? If not, go rogue instead of your 3rd level of fighter unless you want the .25 BAB.
    It's possible that I may take another level of ftr at a higher level (after cap raise...) or not. Haven't weighed the differences of this yet. If they put STWF in the game it's possible.

    CuChoinneach Deathslayer Knight of the Undying Court

  16. #36
    Hero QuantumFX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneralDiomedes View Post
    Just don't get your move silently too high or they can no longer hear you and it won't work. My 0 stealth Sorc can still body pull, while my very stealthy Ranger no longer can unless they are vermin or undead.
    Well Malrani has House P fueled ninja abilities. (Least DM of Shadow + Extend.)
    Xoll has invisibility scrolls. (Gonna go 16 Ranger/3 Paladin/1 Rogue since he didn't have the skill points for Hide/Move Silently)
    Baalric just gets mailed all the invisibility pots I pull. (This is the guy that played tank/ninja in Purge.)
    Things worthy of Standing Stone going EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on.:
    • Epic and Legendary Mysterious ring upgrades, please.
    • Change the stack size of filigree in the shared bank to 50. The 5 stack makes the shared bank worthless for storing filigree in a human usable manner.
    • Fixing why I don't connect to the chat server for 5 minutes when I log into a game world.
    • Fixing the wonky Lightning Sphere and Tactical Det firing by converting them to use alchemist spell arcing.
    • Redoing the drop rates of tomes in generic and raid loot tables.

  17. #37
    Community Member ~True_Knight's Avatar
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    One more revision. Made changes to starting stats... dropped 3 levels of ftr to 2 levels. Picked up first level of ftr sooner at lvl 2 and picked an extra rouge feat at lvl 16. Start Con at 12 and added Toughness feat and dropped Quick Change for more HP. BAB drops by 1. Picked up more stealth and UMD. Saves are also lower. It's a trade off. Also picked up Improved Evasion. Here it is...

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.85
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Shandolar Shadowdancer
    Level 16 True Neutral Elf Female
    (2 Fighter \ 13 Rogue \ 1 Wizard) 
    Hit Points: 161
    Spell Points: 150 
    BAB: 11\11\16\21
    Fortitude: 8
    Reflex: 13
    Will: 5
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Stats          Modified Stats
    Abilities        (Level 1)             (Level 16)
    Strength             13                    14
    Dexterity            17                    21
    Constitution         12                    12
    Intelligence         15                    15
    Wisdom                9                     9
    Charisma              8                     8
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
    Balance               6                    15
    Bluff                -1                     1
    Concentration         1                     1
    Diplomacy            -1                    -1
    Disable Device        5                    21
    Haggle               -1                    -1
    Heal                 -1                    -1
    Hide                  7                    29.5
    Intimidate           -1                    -1
    Jump                  4                    12
    Listen                3                    20
    Move Silently         7                    28.5
    Open Lock             6                    13
    Perform              n/a                   n/a
    Repair                2                     2
    Search                6                    21
    Spot                  3                    20
    Swim                  1                     2
    Tumble                7                    12
    Use Magic Device      3                    18
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Phiarlan Stealth I
    Enhancement: Elf Melee Damage I
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark I
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
    
    Level 3 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    
    Level 4 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Finesse
    Enhancement: Elf Melee Attack I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    
    Level 5 (Rogue)
    
    Level 6 (Wizard)
    Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
    Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow
    Spell (1): Shield
    Spell (1): Ray of Enfeeblement
    Spell (1): Mage Armor
    Spell (1): Hypnotism
    Spell (1): Feather Fall
    Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
    
    Level 7 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark II
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide II
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    
    Level 11 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Way of the Assassin I
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Shadow
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking III
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide III
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber III
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently III
    
    Level 15 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabber IV
    Last edited by True Knight; 04-08-2008 at 07:24 AM.

    CuChoinneach Deathslayer Knight of the Undying Court

  18. #38
    Community Member Master_of_None's Avatar
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    Mar 2006
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    How far are you along with this version? Stats look ok; I'd put more points in cha, but that's a judgment call. I ask because I think you'd benefit from switching around finesse and twf so you can take finesse first. The benefits of twf aren't that great until you get at least improved, and you might be using a shield at low levels anyway. Finesse will help you right away.

    I also see you don't have improved crit. I really think you should fit that in somewhere; it's a great feat for any combat class. I'd certainly take it over toughness (which you can get on the Minos helm anyway), and probably even greater twf.
    知其不可而為之

  19. #39
    Community Member Stealthbr's Avatar
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    How is the build doing on solo or missions that require you to actually kill more than just the boss? What about group missions? Does anyone know what is the speed penalty when stealthing? Also, I find your dex a bit too low considering its your main stat. What do you do when a group requires you to disable a certain trap? Are you having a hard time with your rogue skills? Your UMD is pretty low also considering your base Cha is only 8. Are the dragon marks lasting long enough that makes it a good addition to the build?

  20. #40
    Community Member ~True_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbr View Post
    How is the build doing on solo or missions that require you to actually kill more than just the boss? What about group missions? Does anyone know what is the speed penalty when stealthing? Also, I find your dex a bit too low considering its your main stat. What do you do when a group requires you to disable a certain trap? Are you having a hard time with your rogue skills? Your UMD is pretty low also considering your base Cha is only 8. Are the dragon marks lasting long enough that makes it a good addition to the build?
    So far, it's been the easiest of all my builds to solo with. She ranges with a +1 Acid crossbow and is able to stay stealthed so well that she can pick off members of a group one at a time and they usually don't know where to look. When it comes to the boss, I use the dragon mark...get in to position and take the boss out with a backstab. The dragonmark has been lasting long enough so far. I also have on her a robe of shadow +1, boots of elven kind +3 and cloak of elven kind +3. Trapwise no problems, she also has googles of disable traps +3.

    After I got her to level 3, I rerolled her using the stats above. I am not too far along to go ahead and reroll her again. What would be the suggested stats that you might use?

    CuChoinneach Deathslayer Knight of the Undying Court

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