Green Steel Weapon vs Goggles

[Merkinsal]

EVERYONE seems to be talking about crafting the goggles for the increase in Charisma skill and subsequent boost to UMD. I truly understand the value of UMD and there is an infamous, my term, thread which fully discusses UMD's value I would request anyone who wants to beat that dead, mangled horse to reply to that thread and not this one.

NO ONE is talking about weapons that will give us the same increase in our main stat, Charisma.

I have 32 Charisma on my human sorc because I don't have a +3 tome for a 34. I carry focus item for FoD and have Heighten and I am having a hard time beating the DC of those Orthons and Devils in the Shroud. With any spell as a matter of fact.

If I take a weapon, I can increase my Charisma by 7, my UMD by 3, my DC by 7, and my SP by about 54 (not sure about SP). Granted not the SP increase of goggles, but I will not be missing on a DC roll much anymore either. I have both Spell Pen feats and all three enhancements for +5 and hardly ever fail on penetration. Seems +7 on a DC roll would be well worth it.

Granted there are alot of things I can do rather than try to FoD those things, at least I think so and maybe this whole conversation is a non issue because what I should be doing instead of fingering Devils, and I do, is buffing and crowd control AOE. Acid Fog, CK, Solid Fog, Dancing Ball, Displacment, Haste, and for myself Fire Shield, Stoneskin etc.

For now, seems as often as I fail DC, I would save all the extra SP and more on the hard and elite Vale content with higher Char. But of course I dont know and that is why I'm posting. Looking down at future MODs, I'm thinking there must be a good reason we just were handed a way to increase Charisma more than any tome we've been hoping and trying on getting and spending months to do so.

If that Charisma don't stack, FtS and Cursespew me now and call it good.

[Moonseeker]

Fairly positive that the Charisma bonus from a greensteel weapon does not stack with any other Charisma item. I think it would be more than a little overkill if it did. So, effectively you'd only be boosting your current Cha by 1 point. *Shrug* Doesn't really seem worth it when you can use all kinds of other weapons to boost damage, Spell Pen, Focus, etc....and as a casting class, you're not likely to be in combat much to make use of any other effects.....unless you're as psychotic as my Wizzy and her Dreamspitter or Dual Puncturers. In regards to the spell selection in the Vale quests, Hold Monster works great against almost everything out there. I find that FtS/FoD/PK are saved against a lot, which implies high Fort saves.....Hold Monster is a Will save and hits damned near every time from what I've seen..... and my wizzie is Necro-specced, so her DC isn't the highest in the world for it. Ah well, just my thoughts on the matter.

Moonseeker

[Westerner]

I believe the net benefit of Greensteel weapons would be for Exceptional CHA. You could make a +9 CHA item which nets you +1-2 DC over a conventional +6 item. Would like to hear sorcs opinions as to whether that's worth the crafting effort.

[Gratch]

Personally going for a fire resist 10% and +3 exceptional cha scepter (keeping +6 base cha on an always on item). Still trying to decide on which tier 2 bonus clicky I want out of it. Don't really care enough about the tier 3 bonus'es on weapons for a non melee caster. Concordant Opposition and Smoke Concealment are probably the most interesting, but still not sure if they're worth 24 large.

Scepters are boring anyways... making mine a warhammer.
tier 1: FOM - 10% fire resistance
tier 2: AEE - +1 exceptional charisma
tier 2 bonus: displacement L16 cast unextended self-only 2x/day
tier 3: AEE for +2 exceptional charisma (+3 total)

Though I think the best tier 2 bonus for a caster might be the fire+water: tempered which adds +10 concentration. Too bad there's no +1 exceptional charisma from water.

Hmmm... though if you're already at an even cha, you could do:
1: WOM, 2: FOM, 3: AEE or PEE (no tier 3 bonus) for:
10% cold resistance + 15% fire resistance +2 exceptional charisma, +7 Intimidate and Repair, +10 Concentration

[Merkinsal]

The current bonus on in game items is Enhancement on Cha items. Different bonus types stack so if the bonue is "Exceptional" or " Enchanted" then it would stack , in the same way the Alchemical Cha bonus of "Potions of Influence" stack with Enhancement. There are few references to exactly what kind of bonus is in the green steel upgrades for Cha. For Charisma "Skills" yes, for Charisma, no.

[Angelus_dead]

There are few references to exactly what kind of bonus is in the green steel upgrades for Cha. For Charisma "Skills" yes, for Charisma, no.

There are many references and they are easy to find.

The tier 1 +6 charisma is an enhancement bonus, which doesn't stack with the +6 charisma item you already use.
The tier 2 and tier 3 effects are exceptional bonuses, which stack with each other and with your other gear.

Therefore the charisma weapon only gives you an improvement of +1 or +2 to your save DCs and UMD rolls. Is that worth it? Consider that many players already equip the Dreamspitter before casting an enchantment spell to get +1 DCs, but the Green Steel Scepter of Charisma can give you +2 DCs for all schools of magic and only use up one hand.

[Angelus_dead]

I have 32 Charisma on my human sorc because I don't have a +3 tome for a 34. I carry focus item for FoD and have Heighten and I am having a hard time beating the DC of those Orthons and Devils in the Shroud. With any spell as a matter of fact.

Orthons in the Shroud have higher level and more constitution than Orthons elsewhere. Their Fortitude totals are about 21, as opposed to 15 normally.

[Merkinsal]

There are many references and they are easy to find.

The tier 1 +6 charisma is an enhancement bonus, which doesn't stack with the +6 charisma item you already use.
The tier 2 and tier 3 effects are exceptional bonuses, which stack with each other and with your other gear.

Therefore the charisma weapon only gives you an improvement of +1 or +2 to your save DCs and UMD rolls. Is that worth it? Consider that many players already equip the Dreamspitter before casting an enchantment spell to get +1 DCs, but the Green Steel Scepter of Charisma can give you +2 DCs for all schools of magic and only use up one hand.

Thank you Angelus. This is exactly the information I was looking for. I did look because I certainly did not want to waste anybody's time but but be blind. Where did I put those blindness ward goggles :P

Is it worth it you ask? That is a great question. +2 DCs in all schools of magic is two feats. except of course two feats is good for only one school and that is big. That could give a sorc +4 DC over a featless, non Scepter carrying sorc.

I think you could go eda eda eea and get Greater Magnetism 6, haste 3 times day, and the +2 Exceptional Cha Bonus (+2 DC, 18SP)and Crushing Wave, like Im going to hit anything lol. No point in wasting tier one on eea or eep unless you wanted true resurection or delayed blast fireball. As a fire/cold leaning sorc, Greater Magnetism 6 would be nice.

Ok, so my first question was too good to be true. Now, however, the question hasn't changed, "What do we want first, the weapon or the item?"

[Kargon]

problem with weapamon for kargon are kargon not have a superior potenmanacy 6 ring or a skiver in form of a ring, so kargon pretty much stuck with the 2 daggers kargon carries for those effemects. now kargon could always swap the potency with a green steel for the + to dc, and kargon may eventuamally make one to do that, but even now when kargon use something like 1 wand charge or 1 scroll kargon ALWAMAYS forget to put potency back on before start casting damage spells. so kargon went with bracermers first (what can kargon say, spectacamles of spirit sight nice so kargon not want goggamels, and kargon cha 6 item still on silly cloak, so kargon not wear silly napkin instead of spirit goggles).

So basicamally what kargon getting at are kargon would not recommend making a weapamon first, unless you not attached to keeping a Lore item in one of you two hands (hey, if not have a greenblade or a skiver, might not be worth tying up a hand with 1 element lore only), or unless you very good at switching items before cast each spell in middle of combat.

p.s. air/air/air will give the knockdown/haste guard chance, even on a weapamon (when you get hit, not when you hit them). slightlamally more useful than silly crushing waves for a castermer, although to be fair, kargon have air X 3 bracers and kargon never yet notice them go off. maybe kargon just realamally good at dodging

[Desteria]

I made bracers first ... afiled attempt to upgrade bolas befor we know abotu dule shards I have then made a dagegr Befor i remake my braacers my dagger is:

+6 STR - neg
+1 Ecpt CHA - pos
Exitential Stalmate +6 wis +10 dip/haggle
+2 Ecpt CHA - pos
Concordent Oppition When getitng hit rarly het temps hp or sp back.

I have a skiver, I swap dagger and Sup Pot item beacuse when nuking i dotn care much about save dc's and when CC/instakillign i dont care much about pot.

ATM this gives my old 28pt human sorc 37 cha, I will get 38 if i ever get a +3 tome I put the +1 cha n it even if no benifit yet because i dotn want to remake this thing later and soem tiems that extra +1 will mean even cha vrs odd cha.

I liek this dagger a LOT there was no question in my mind i would make one BUT my 300 bonus SP item with +5 umd had to come first

[Angelus_dead]

As a fire/cold leaning sorc, Greater Magnetism 6 would be nice.

I see no reason why anyone would want Greater Mag 6. You should be using Superior Potency 6 in almost every situation that can benefit from hitpoint damage.

[Shade]

p.s. air/air/air will give the knockdown/haste guard chance, even on a weapamon (when you get hit, not when you hit them). slightlamally more useful than silly crushing waves for a castermer, although to be fair, kargon have air X 3 bracers and kargon never yet notice them go off. maybe kargon just realamally good at dodging

Yea I have the air guard bracers too, they do work pretty good actually.. Well my sorc gets hit a ton cuz thats how i play him tho. I think its like 4% chance, better then most effects. Tho its usually the haste effect and not the knockdown one, so more like 1-2% total on the knockdown part.. But maybe it stacks, so i could get the weapon one too, to double its chance. or even dual wield them to triple it.

Crushing wave on a cha weapon? Um no, you cant do that, that is water + water +water. To get the cha bonus you need to go either positive or air, water = strength.

You can get only air guard or greater disruption for the 12 ingredient recipe..
Or go both for the 24 ingredient ones that have air or pos as dominant,, so
either concordant oposititon (neg/pos/combo pos dominant)
or lightning strike. (air/pos/combo air dominant)
or a few other crappier ones.

[transtemporal]

I believe the net benefit of Greensteel weapons would be for Exceptional CHA. You could make a +9 CHA item which nets you +1-2 DC over a conventional +6 item. Would like to hear sorcs opinions as to whether that's worth the crafting effort.

I think so. +2 DC is always welcome, plus if you the air route you get haste and airguard. I'm going for a longsword on my elf sorc just cos it looks so cool.

[Merkinsal]

I see no reason why anyone would want Greater Mag 6. You should be using Superior Potency 6 in almost every situation that can benefit from hitpoint damage.

Huh. I knew that. For some reason I was thinking that would stack but I know better. I think I already have a Superior mag anyway. The mind flayers have sucked out my brains! HELP ME

[Merkinsal]

Yea I have the air guard bracers too, they do work pretty good actually.. Well my sorc gets hit a ton cuz thats how i play him tho. I think its like 4% chance, better then most effects. Tho its usually the haste effect and not the knockdown one, so more like 1-2% total on the knockdown part.. But maybe it stacks, so i could get the weapon one too, to double its chance. or even dual wield them to triple it.

Crushing wave on a cha weapon? Um no, you cant do that, that is water + water +water. To get the cha bonus you need to go either positive or air, water = strength.

You can get only air guard or greater disruption for the 12 ingredient recipe..
Or go both for the 24 ingredient ones that have air or pos as dominant,, so
either concordant oposititon (neg/pos/combo pos dominant)
or lightning strike. (air/pos/combo air dominant)
or a few other crappier ones.

Seems like Cambo's Eldritch Rituals Cookbook has an error in it. She shows the tier three bonus for air air air to be Crushing Wave and water water water to be Air Guard. Then I mixed up the Item and Equipment headings. Thank you correcting me.

Air Guard bracers huh? Now thats a neat idea. Man, this could take days to figure out. Oh, wait, it has taken days, I still don't have it down. Heck, I still don't know what I want. This could drive a man/women to drink. Oh, wait, I do drink. Now what do I do?

[FluffyCalico]

There are many references and they are easy to find.

The tier 1 +6 charisma is an enhancement bonus, which doesn't stack with the +6 charisma item you already use.
The tier 2 and tier 3 effects are exceptional bonuses, which stack with each other and with your other gear.

Therefore the charisma weapon only gives you an improvement of +1 or +2 to your save DCs and UMD rolls. Is that worth it? Consider that many players already equip the Dreamspitter before casting an enchantment spell to get +1 DCs, but the Green Steel Scepter of Charisma can give you +2 DCs for all schools of magic and only use up one hand.

So its a 2nd stacking +3 tome basically. Everyone knows that no sorc in there right mind wants a +3 cha tome

[Kargon]

So its a 2nd stacking +3 tome basically. Everyone knows that no sorc in there right mind wants a +3 cha tome

not if kargon has to remove superior potency 6 evermary time kargon wants to wear it! kind of why kargon not see a lot of melee wearing a +9 strength weapamon...

[Merkinsal]

not if kargon has to remove superior potency 6 evermary time kargon wants to wear it! kind of why kargon not see a lot of melee wearing a +9 strength weapamon...

Merkinsal learn much from Kargon bout clothes and sticks and make list. Merkinsal like to thank Kargon. Make sure Kargon understand Thank You so write slow. Will always remember Kargon.

Thinks, by the way, that Kargon should ask Drow sorcerermer biographer for date, thinks she may have a crush on you and you never know, more tasty ham.

[Nick_RC]

I have been using the cha khopesh (+9) for the better part of the vale content. its awesome. permanently in my off hand my set ups go like this.

1. (initial and b4 every shrine)Cha khopesh + skiver - buff away the extra 100sp over and above what the goggles give. wiz6 vs archmagi.

2. Cha khopesh + Sup pot 6
3. Cha khopesh + w/p pick (alot faster than dreamsplitter)
4. Cha khopesh + chaosblade (lootrunning and maintaining minimum expenditure)

For this to work you must wear blue dragon armour so you have the greater arcane lore off your hands when using the sup pot 6.

You need to click between a few options but it is def the way too go imo as it also frees up another slot on your body for other goodness.

N

[redoubt]

I did not know about the stacking of the cha with another item. That is interesting...

Along with 600sp / +6 umd goggles, I could equip something like:

dagger of 10% heal amp, 20% neg energy absorb, +10 diplomacy, +10 haggle, +6 wisdom, +2 exceptional CHA.

If an item like that is combined with say the reaver's napkin... Use this dagger when casting DC attacks. Swap back to sup potency & lore for damage. Works out to be the same DC as the reaver pencil of death since you cannot use both at once.

Darn you people... now I have to make yet another greensteel... :P