Green Steel Weapon vs Goggles

[Merkinsal]

EVERYONE seems to be talking about crafting the goggles for the increase in Charisma skill and subsequent boost to UMD. I truly understand the value of UMD and there is an infamous, my term, thread which fully discusses UMD's value I would request anyone who wants to beat that dead, mangled horse to reply to that thread and not this one.

NO ONE is talking about weapons that will give us the same increase in our main stat, Charisma.

I have 32 Charisma on my human sorc because I don't have a +3 tome for a 34. I carry focus item for FoD and have Heighten and I am having a hard time beating the DC of those Orthons and Devils in the Shroud. With any spell as a matter of fact.

If I take a weapon, I can increase my Charisma by 7, my UMD by 3, my DC by 7, and my SP by about 54 (not sure about SP). Granted not the SP increase of goggles, but I will not be missing on a DC roll much anymore either. I have both Spell Pen feats and all three enhancements for +5 and hardly ever fail on penetration. Seems +7 on a DC roll would be well worth it.

Granted there are alot of things I can do rather than try to FoD those things, at least I think so and maybe this whole conversation is a non issue because what I should be doing instead of fingering Devils, and I do, is buffing and crowd control AOE. Acid Fog, CK, Solid Fog, Dancing Ball, Displacment, Haste, and for myself Fire Shield, Stoneskin etc.

For now, seems as often as I fail DC, I would save all the extra SP and more on the hard and elite Vale content with higher Char. But of course I dont know and that is why I'm posting. Looking down at future MODs, I'm thinking there must be a good reason we just were handed a way to increase Charisma more than any tome we've been hoping and trying on getting and spending months to do so.

If that Charisma don't stack, FtS and Cursespew me now and call it good.

[Moonseeker]

Fairly positive that the Charisma bonus from a greensteel weapon does not stack with any other Charisma item. I think it would be more than a little overkill if it did. So, effectively you'd only be boosting your current Cha by 1 point. *Shrug* Doesn't really seem worth it when you can use all kinds of other weapons to boost damage, Spell Pen, Focus, etc....and as a casting class, you're not likely to be in combat much to make use of any other effects.....unless you're as psychotic as my Wizzy and her Dreamspitter or Dual Puncturers. In regards to the spell selection in the Vale quests, Hold Monster works great against almost everything out there. I find that FtS/FoD/PK are saved against a lot, which implies high Fort saves.....Hold Monster is a Will save and hits damned near every time from what I've seen..... and my wizzie is Necro-specced, so her DC isn't the highest in the world for it. Ah well, just my thoughts on the matter.

Moonseeker

[Westerner]

I believe the net benefit of Greensteel weapons would be for Exceptional CHA. You could make a +9 CHA item which nets you +1-2 DC over a conventional +6 item. Would like to hear sorcs opinions as to whether that's worth the crafting effort.

[Merkinsal]

The current bonus on in game items is Enhancement on Cha items. Different bonus types stack so if the bonue is "Exceptional" or " Enchanted" then it would stack , in the same way the Alchemical Cha bonus of "Potions of Influence" stack with Enhancement. There are few references to exactly what kind of bonus is in the green steel upgrades for Cha. For Charisma "Skills" yes, for Charisma, no.

[Angelus_dead]

There are few references to exactly what kind of bonus is in the green steel upgrades for Cha. For Charisma "Skills" yes, for Charisma, no.

There are many references and they are easy to find.

The tier 1 +6 charisma is an enhancement bonus, which doesn't stack with the +6 charisma item you already use.
The tier 2 and tier 3 effects are exceptional bonuses, which stack with each other and with your other gear.

Therefore the charisma weapon only gives you an improvement of +1 or +2 to your save DCs and UMD rolls. Is that worth it? Consider that many players already equip the Dreamspitter before casting an enchantment spell to get +1 DCs, but the Green Steel Scepter of Charisma can give you +2 DCs for all schools of magic and only use up one hand.

[Merkinsal]

There are many references and they are easy to find.

The tier 1 +6 charisma is an enhancement bonus, which doesn't stack with the +6 charisma item you already use.
The tier 2 and tier 3 effects are exceptional bonuses, which stack with each other and with your other gear.

Therefore the charisma weapon only gives you an improvement of +1 or +2 to your save DCs and UMD rolls. Is that worth it? Consider that many players already equip the Dreamspitter before casting an enchantment spell to get +1 DCs, but the Green Steel Scepter of Charisma can give you +2 DCs for all schools of magic and only use up one hand.

Thank you Angelus. This is exactly the information I was looking for. I did look because I certainly did not want to waste anybody's time but but be blind. Where did I put those blindness ward goggles :P

Is it worth it you ask? That is a great question. +2 DCs in all schools of magic is two feats. except of course two feats is good for only one school and that is big. That could give a sorc +4 DC over a featless, non Scepter carrying sorc.

I think you could go eda eda eea and get Greater Magnetism 6, haste 3 times day, and the +2 Exceptional Cha Bonus (+2 DC, 18SP)and Crushing Wave, like Im going to hit anything lol. No point in wasting tier one on eea or eep unless you wanted true resurection or delayed blast fireball. As a fire/cold leaning sorc, Greater Magnetism 6 would be nice.

Ok, so my first question was too good to be true. Now, however, the question hasn't changed, "What do we want first, the weapon or the item?"

[FluffyCalico]

There are many references and they are easy to find.

The tier 1 +6 charisma is an enhancement bonus, which doesn't stack with the +6 charisma item you already use.
The tier 2 and tier 3 effects are exceptional bonuses, which stack with each other and with your other gear.

Therefore the charisma weapon only gives you an improvement of +1 or +2 to your save DCs and UMD rolls. Is that worth it? Consider that many players already equip the Dreamspitter before casting an enchantment spell to get +1 DCs, but the Green Steel Scepter of Charisma can give you +2 DCs for all schools of magic and only use up one hand.

So its a 2nd stacking +3 tome basically. Everyone knows that no sorc in there right mind wants a +3 cha tome

[transtemporal]

I believe the net benefit of Greensteel weapons would be for Exceptional CHA. You could make a +9 CHA item which nets you +1-2 DC over a conventional +6 item. Would like to hear sorcs opinions as to whether that's worth the crafting effort.

I think so. +2 DC is always welcome, plus if you the air route you get haste and airguard. I'm going for a longsword on my elf sorc just cos it looks so cool.

[Gratch]

Personally going for a fire resist 10% and +3 exceptional cha scepter (keeping +6 base cha on an always on item). Still trying to decide on which tier 2 bonus clicky I want out of it. Don't really care enough about the tier 3 bonus'es on weapons for a non melee caster. Concordant Opposition and Smoke Concealment are probably the most interesting, but still not sure if they're worth 24 large.

Scepters are boring anyways... making mine a warhammer.
tier 1: FOM - 10% fire resistance
tier 2: AEE - +1 exceptional charisma
tier 2 bonus: displacement L16 cast unextended self-only 2x/day
tier 3: AEE for +2 exceptional charisma (+3 total)

Though I think the best tier 2 bonus for a caster might be the fire+water: tempered which adds +10 concentration. Too bad there's no +1 exceptional charisma from water.

Hmmm... though if you're already at an even cha, you could do:
1: WOM, 2: FOM, 3: AEE or PEE (no tier 3 bonus) for:
10% cold resistance + 15% fire resistance +2 exceptional charisma, +7 Intimidate and Repair, +10 Concentration

[Angelus_dead]

I have 32 Charisma on my human sorc because I don't have a +3 tome for a 34. I carry focus item for FoD and have Heighten and I am having a hard time beating the DC of those Orthons and Devils in the Shroud. With any spell as a matter of fact.

Orthons in the Shroud have higher level and more constitution than Orthons elsewhere. Their Fortitude totals are about 21, as opposed to 15 normally.