Way of the Asassin II Clarification Question

[Aspenor]

Will the way of the asassin II enhancement apply the new death effect on every sneak attack accomplished during the duration of the clickie?

Or is it 1 attack per activation of the 6 second clickie?

Inquiring and curious minds wish to know.

[LeLoric]

I read it as one attack with a 6 sec cooldown similar to stunning blow and trip

[dameron]

It might not matter all that much as I'd expect after the 1st attack the mob will either be dead or aggroed on the rogue most of the time.

But yeah, some clarification would be nice.

[Aspenor]

I read it as one attack with a 6 sec cooldown similar to stunning blow and trip

I read it as a 6 second duration ability with a 10 second cooldown.

There is obviously some confusion.

[Eladrin]

It's an active attack, like Cleave.

Edit:
Push button. If you're doing a sneak attack, chance to kill the (living) target. If they make their save, they instead take some damage. You'll still get your normal sneak attack damage on top of that too.

[Aspenor]

It's an active attack, like Cleave.

Thanks, so Lel was right.

D'OH!

[LeLoric]

I am the greatest

[Redcoil]

While on this note, can we assume Paladin Divine Sacrifice is the same? Or is it a spell?
This questions rather important, as if its a spell we can prep it, and hit a smite, and somehow stack the two.

If not, we can use it to suppliment after smites, or even smite then sacrifice, since the two shouldn't share a timer - I hope :-)

[Wulf_Ratbane]

I sent Eladrin a PM but I'll repost here since this thread has his attention:

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Eladrin--

I realize this ability is based directly on the Assassin prestige class, but the DC will end up being much higher than the prestige class allows. The assassin only has 10 levels so the DC would be capped at 10+10+INT.

A rogue ends up with twice the bonus from his levels as compared to the assassin.

As written, this ability is much more powerful than the Assassin's death attack.
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And I'll extend my remarks somewhat: Class abilities are normally based on a DC of 10 + 1/2 level + ability mod. All spells also follow this format. The game revolves around this pace of scaling. Prestige classes are an exception to that rule because they are capped at 10 levels, and because they don't count the other 10 levels you may have in other classes.

[Aspenor]

I sent Eladrin a PM but I'll repost here since this thread has his attention:

-------------
Eladrin--

I realize this ability is based directly on the Assassin prestige class, but the DC will end up being much higher than the prestige class allows. The assassin only has 10 levels so the DC would be capped at 10+10+INT.

A rogue ends up with twice the bonus from his levels as compared to the assassin.

As written, this ability is much more powerful than the Assassin's death attack.
-------------

And I'll extend my remarks somewhat: Class abilities are normally based on a DC of 10 + 1/2 level + ability mod. All spells also follow this format. The game revolves around this pace of scaling. Prestige classes are an exception to that rule because they are capped at 10 levels, and because they don't count the other 10 levels you may have in other classes.

Ummmmm....thanks but....

How does this apply exactly??? LoL.

[Wulf_Ratbane]

Ummmmm....thanks but....

How does this apply exactly??? LoL.

By way of clarification to Way of Assassin II?

The save DC on Way of the Assassin is too high. It should be 10 + 1/2 Rogue level + INT.

If the save DC is 10 + Rogue Level + INT, it has a higher save DC than any instant-death spell (arcane or divine), it costs no spell points, and you can do it every 10 seconds.

IT'S BROKEN.

[MysticTheurge]

The save DC on Way of the Assassin is too high.

IT'S BROKEN.

Fortunately, saving throws of monsters in DDO are also too high and equally "broken."

In practice, it's not significantly higher than the save DC for death spells because a Rogue's Intelligence isn't going to compare with a Wizard's Intelligence, a Sorcerer's Charisma or a Cleric's Wisdom.

Rogue: 10 + 16 level + 6 (22 int, 16 base, +6 item) = 32
Wizard 10 + 8 spell level + 12 (34 int) + 1 (focus item) = 31 (that's without feats, adding in SF:Necro and you're matching the rogue)

Given that the rogue's also involves a) an attack roll and b) all the normal sneak attack qualifiers, it doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Making it half-level would result in an ability which would be useless, even for capped-rogues (DC 24? Nothing's going to fail that.)

[Aspenor]

By way of clarification to Way of Assassin II?

The save DC on Way of the Assassin is too high. It should be 10 + 1/2 Rogue level + INT.

If the save DC is 10 + Rogue Level + INT, it has a higher save DC than any instant-death spell (arcane or divine), it costs no spell points, and you can do it every 10 seconds.

IT'S BROKEN.

From what El said there I don't see anything saying it's BROKEN, I see that it has been developed with a different mechanic than the PnP assassin.

Wanna talk about broken? Barb crit rage II, nuff said.

[Aspenor]

Fortunately, saving throws of monsters in DDO are also too high and equally "broken."

Thanks MT.

Comparing the prestige class in PnP to the DDO enhancement is comparing apples and oranges. The inflated saving throws of DDO monsters would support that class abilities should be similarly powerful.

[binnsr]

By way of clarification to Way of Assassin II?

The save DC on Way of the Assassin is too high. It should be 10 + 1/2 Rogue level + INT.

If the save DC is 10 + Rogue Level + INT, it has a higher save DC than any instant-death spell (arcane or divine), it costs no spell points, and you can do it every 10 seconds.

IT'S BROKEN.

At least let folks abuse it before you say its broken

[ChildrenofBodom]

Hm....I wonder...

Will deathword stop this effect?

WILL THIS WORK IN PVP?!?! OMG.

[LeLoric]

Hm....I wonder...

Will deathword stop this effect?

WILL THIS WORK IN PVP?!?! OMG.

If only you could reliably sneak attack in pvp

[bobbryan2]

If the save DC is 10 + Rogue Level + INT, it has a higher save DC than any instant-death spell (arcane or divine), it costs no spell points, and you can do it every 10 seconds.

That's not entirely true. A level 15 rogue with 22 int would have a 31 save. That's what my sorc has with FOD. Sure, you could go pure rog with even more enhanced INT to get a couple extra DC... but it 'casts' half as fast as a Sorc FODin, and it only procs on a sneak attack.

It'll be no where near as powerful as a Sorc going FOD crazy.

Don't get me wrong... it's very very powerful; I was a bit taken aback by it's power, but if any class needed an eye-blinking enhancement, it was rogues.

[Aeneas]

well, i don't want to see this ability nerfed in any way because i think it sounds great, but to play devil's advocate to MT, i just posted this in the rogue forum:

Drow rogue 16

20 base int
6 item
4 levels
3 Int tome
+3 exceptional int 1 and 2
-----
36 int = +13 int

10 + 16 + 13 = DC 39 instadeath.


Paired with a radiance II shortsword (which can have exceptional int I and II) you could swing until they're blind from a crit then instadeath with very little chance of save and no spell resistance every 10 seconds.

TBH, even halving the rogue level's contribution to the DC means a DC 31 save which is pretty legit.


Taking hamstring might be a nice way to keep them from getting away Or maybe even better, you could insta death sneak attack, sap them, then wait for your timer to come back, bluff them, then instadeath again in case they roll a 20 the first time.

[Deragoth]

...
Wanna talk about broken? Barb crit rage II, nuff said.

Excuse me, sir. Please back away from the enhancement. Nothing to see here, sir. Please move along...