Weekly Development Activities 3/31/2008

[Turial]

So any chance the paladin redemption could be moved down a level on all tiers?

At low levels it would be quite the plus.

[Kraegor]

Uh, no.

Those things are improvised weapons.

Improvised weapons are things that are not able to function and damage like regular weapons. I.E. Chair, Barstool, Mug, Table, Bottle, A Hamhock, A frozen Turkey, A briefcase, etc.

Canes, Folded Umbrellas, Sawed off Broomsticks/Baseball Bats, and the like are most DEFINATELY clubs and not improvised weapons. (With umbrella, I might have to give that one to you, depending on the make, model, and type)

Guess what?

Clubs aren't Light.

Clubs are light, or heavy, depending on what type of club you are using. If you are thinking of the standard D&D caveman club, then no.

But if you want to be realistic, and I am 6'6, and can bench press 400 lbs, why would a 5 lb club NOT be light?

Can't bring realism into d20 conversations unfortunately, they just don't work.

[EspyLacopa]

But if you want to be realistic, and I am 6'6, and can bench press 400 lbs, why would a 5 lb club NOT be light?

Can't bring realism into d20 conversations unfortunately, they just don't work.

By that logic, you could use a Warhammer in the same manner. Afterall, it's also 5 lb.

And the Trident, Flail, Longsword, and Scimitar

[MysticTheurge]

Improvised weapons are things that are not able to function and damage like regular weapons. I.E. Chair, Barstool, Mug, Table, Bottle, A Hamhock, A frozen Turkey, A briefcase, etc.

Canes, Folded Umbrellas, Sawed off Broomsticks/Baseball Bats, and the like are most DEFINATELY clubs and not improvised weapons. (With umbrella, I might have to give that one to you, depending on the make, model, and type)

No.

Improvised Weapons

Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat.

It has nothing to do with whether something can "function and damage like a regular weapon." It specifically says things which are "not crafted to be weapons."

As a DM, of course, you're free to rule that anyone can use a folded umbrella as a club. But according to the D&D rules, it's an improvised weapon.

Clubs are light, or heavy, depending on what type of club you are using.

You're confusing the descriptive adjective "light" with the D&D weapon category "light." A lot of people do it, but they're actually different things.

[Kraegor]

It has nothing to do with whether something can "function and damage like a regular weapon." It specifically says things which are "not crafted to be weapons."

As a DM, of course, you're free to rule that anyone can use a folded umbrella as a club. But according to the D&D rules, it's an improvised weapon.

This may be true, I don't know, but take a look for yourself at the improvised weapon chart from d20 Modern (which I use because they go into a LOT more detail of what improvised weapons are:

http://www.d20resources.com/modern.d...improvised.php


*note there that baseball bats, broomhandles, broken pool queue, etc aren't in there for some odd reason. Wierd considering that in every "bar" scene that I watch, at least 1 of those objects make it in, so if they didn't put it in there.. could it be considered.. a club by default? (otherwise i really can't see why the heck they would leave out the #1 important "weapon" in a bar fight")

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And also.. they go into a bit more detail of what exactly a "club" is:

Club

Almost anything can be used as a club. This entry represents the wooden nightsticks sometimes carried by police forces.

You can take that as 2 ways, either saying the entry only represents an actual nightstick, and anything else is subject to interpretation, or basically the damage given is a general rule of thumb for all club-like things.

You're confusing the descriptive adjective "light" with the D&D weapon category "light." A lot of people do it, but they're actually different things.

I am not confusing anything, I was merely pointing out that if we bring "reason" and "Reality" into a situation, to a 8 str halfling, a "light mace" is heavy as hell, but to mr 20 str warforge, a sledgehammer is like a feather. So reality has no concern in situations where the d20/d&d ruleset is applying itself. Sorry if that made me seem confusing.

Now I do remember an actual WOTC errata quite a while ago that said basically a club was basically any "sturdy" elongated object that could be weilded with ease in battle or some sort, I would have to find that. Not sure of the exact wording.

[EightyFour]

I was wondering if someone could take a look at or fix the ladder in "The Pit" On the top in the first furness room, the ladder to the lever that opens up the shrine. I've jumped to it and sometimes I get what looks like lag, and instead of climbing up it's like I hit 3 or 4 lag spikes in a row and each lag spike drops me a little lower on the ladder tell I fall off it.

[EspyLacopa]

I am not confusing anything, I was merely pointing out that if we bring "reason" and "Reality" into a situation, to a 8 str halfling, a "light mace" is heavy as hell, but to mr 20 str warforge, a sledgehammer is like a feather. So reality has no concern in situations where the d20/d&d ruleset is applying itself.

It's not about the Weight of the object, it's about the Balance and how it's actually used in combat.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Clubs are light, or heavy, depending on what type of club you are using. If you are thinking of the standard D&D caveman club, then no.

But if you want to be realistic, and I am 6'6, and can bench press 400 lbs, why would a 5 lb club NOT be light?

Can't bring realism into d20 conversations unfortunately, they just don't work.

D&D clubs are of the larger, caveman variety. A light club would be like a baton/tambo/eskrima sticks, and would probably do 1d4 damage (based on Sai damage).

But, given that light club/fighting stick styles are deeply embedded in martial arts, they'd probably be Exotic in D&D. In which case you could just take Sai and use that (which would be a nice addition to DDO).

[Aesop]

D&D clubs are of the larger, caveman variety. A light club would be like a baton/tambo/eskrima sticks, and would probably do 1d4 damage (based on Sai damage).

ya know .... I'd be comfortable with that.

Aesop

[Kraegor]

It's not about the Weight of the object, it's about the Balance and how it's actually used in combat.

Yeah... I thought I already sorted that issue out. I know what "light" is.

Does anyone ever actually really read my replies? Seriously?

Oh.. nevermind, here is the response you need.

"Thank you, you have enlightened my darkened, simple mind. I shall now go forth and spread the word of your knowledge because you have redeemed my soul from an undying eternity of woe and sin."

Maybe that will stop people from posting about light weapons and what makes them light.

[moorewr]

Wait.. you're character was great until they announce they are going to fix an obvious bug in one feat? You kept your perform low on the assumption it would never be fixed?

I just don't understand some people.

[dragnmoon]

Wait.. you're character was great until they announce they are going to fix an obvious bug in one feat? You kept your perform low on the assumption it would never be fixed?

I just don't understand some people.

Though I won't agree the way he posted it..

They are not fixing a Bug..

Not having a Save for fascinate was deliberate..

They changed their mind and now added a save..

Kind of like how Evasion used to work in Heavy armor was not a Bug..but Turbine changed their mind and changed it..

[Gunga]

Hey Tolero,

With all of the flaming threads on the issue of whether palis got enough love or not, do you think that Turbine will reconsider the direction they've chosen for Paladins? How did the devs come up with the improvements that they made to the Pali class?

Thanks.

[moorewr]

Though I won't agree the way he posted it..

They are not fixing a Bug..

Not having a Save for fascinate was deliberate..

They changed their mind and now added a save..

Kind of like how Evasion used to work in Heavy armor was not a Bug..but Turbine changed their mind and changed it..

Neither example matches PnP rules, nor do they make much sense.
I am genuinely curious though: Did anyone from Turbine publicly state that they made a conscious decision to contradict PnP in those cases? Without that we don't know whether it was intended. If not it really is a bug.. one we are mighty used to...

I well recall the people who had built heavy-armor-wearing evasion fighters, and my opinion is the same now as it was then - OF course it was going to change. Don't build your character around a single quirk of the game. Anyway, those fighters evade just fine in light armor.

An example from my own roster - my fighter/bard uses extend on his Dragon-marks. There's nothing to support that in PnP, since meta-magics work so differently there. It could change someday, and I'd lose an advantage of the character (extended displacements). Caveat Emptor..

[Coldin]

An example from my own roster - my fighter/bard uses extend on his Dragon-marks. There's nothing to support that in PnP, since meta-magics work so differently there. It could change someday, and I'd lose an advantage of the character (extended displacements). Caveat Emptor..

Actaully, I think that was an intended benefit to promote more usage of dragonmarks, since their times per rest usage is so limited compared to how often mages can cast spells in DDO.

[moorewr]

Actaully, I think that was an intended benefit to promote more usage of dragonmarks, since their times per rest usage is so limited compared to how often mages can cast spells in DDO.

Oh, I agree, but the point is I have no rule to point to if they ever change it,

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Forgive me for being slow. (and too lazy to look at all the posts)

Can a halfling......say a pure Ftr. choose Halfling Guile I and gain a sneak attack bonus?!

[dragnmoon]

Neither example matches PnP rules, nor do they make much sense.
I am genuinely curious though: Did anyone from Turbine publicly state that they made a conscious decision to contradict PnP in those cases? Without that we don't know whether it was intended. If not it really is a bug.. one we are mighty used to...

I well recall the people who had built heavy-armor-wearing evasion fighters, and my opinion is the same now as it was then - OF course it was going to change. Don't build your character around a single quirk of the game. Anyway, those fighters evade just fine in light armor.

An example from my own roster - my fighter/bard uses extend on his Dragon-marks. There's nothing to support that in PnP, since meta-magics work so differently there. It could change someday, and I'd lose an advantage of the character (extended displacements). Caveat Emptor..

In both cases at one time the Devs said with both Evasion and Fascinate it was a deliberate choice *that is why I used that word before*....Though recently they stated that they were looking into making Fascinate more useful*many months ago* with out going into specifics.....well now they have.

At one time..a long time ago a Dev that is no longer with Turbine even said Evasion would never change...


Like I said..both were not bugs...they were at the time development decisions... In both cases... Turbine changed their Mind.


That said.. I never built a character not thinking they would never change it..because I know that they do like brining the game close to D&D when they can.

Also I like the change in both cases.

[oronisi]

Forgive me for being slow. (and too lazy to look at all the posts)

Can a halfling......say a pure Ftr. choose Halfling Guile I and gain a sneak attack bonus?!

Now that's actually a great question. Seeing as backstabbing weapons allow sneak attack to non-rogues and I don't recall the new halfling guile enhancements having any rogue requirements, I would have to assume Halfling Guile allows ALL halflings the ability to do sneak attack damage.

Very interesting idea!

[Ministry]

Okay... this is cool...

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# NEW Paladin Exalted Smite I - IV:

* Benefit: Using this attack, you call on the paladin's ability to strike down evil creatures, gaining twice your Charisma bonus to your attack roll, a damage bonus based on your paladin level, and +1 to your weapon's critical damage multiplier. (6 second cool-down, uses smites per day, replaces Smite Evil.)

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But... can we get a few more smites per / day then to make it much better? Like 50 or so?