Improved Feint - new compendium description

[krud]

from the comopendium

Feat: Improved Feint
A melee attack which also Bluffs enemies, enabling sneak attacks for a short period of time

I haven't been keeping up on the development threads, but this new description makes it seems like the feint will generate an attack roll (like Stunning Blow, for example). Currently, it's just an animation with no attack. Is IF going to change, or is this just another case of the compendium not matching reality?

[Angelus_dead]

I haven't been keeping up on the development threads, but this new description makes it seems like the feint will generate an attack roll (like Stunning Blow, for example).

There is no new description. That's the same old description as it's had forever.

[bobbryan2]

Improved feint does need an overhaul however. And bluff needs to be changed to an instantaneous effect like diplo and intimidate. I can only imagine they're scared it'll be used over and over for tons of sneak attacks... but I would much rather it work inside an attack chain with a long cooldown than the way it works now.

[krud]

There is no new description. That's the same old description as it's had forever.

ok they changed a few words, but the meaning is basically the same. In that case my question should be, will they ever match the game with the compendium?

[Sydril]

Bluff and improved feint have needed an overhaul since the introduction of deception weapons generally made them even more useless than they already were.

You spend skill ranks and two precious feats for something that a +1 weapon effect does for free. That is seriously annoying.

[Christoph]

I'm pretty sure that improved feint does attack when you use it. I took it with my rogue, and every time I use it I attack and attempt to bluff at the same time. Maybe you just aren't hitting with you attacks.

[bobbryan2]

I'm pretty sure improved feint uses the bluff animation, and THEN attacks at the end of the bluff animation. They don't do it simultaneously that I remember.

[Aspenor]

I'm pretty sure improved feint uses the bluff animation, and THEN attacks at the end of the bluff animation. They don't do it simultaneously that I remember.

Nope, Improved Feint is a swing that bluffs the enemy, it essential contracts the bluff animation into a singular swing animation.

The thing is you don't get an attack roll on that swing.

[krud]

I'm pretty sure that improved feint does attack when you use it. I took it with my rogue, and every time I use it I attack and attempt to bluff at the same time. Maybe you just aren't hitting with you attacks.

I never get an attack roll when I feint. I get the swing animation, but no attack. I've run into threnal so many times testing various weapons and changes on my character setup, that I should have noticed. Sometimes I just stand there with mobs all around me waiting for the timer to reset, so I obviously have targets within reach, as well as targeted in my orb, and still no attack roll.

[Coldin]

I'm pretty sure that improved feint does attack when you use it. I took it with my rogue, and every time I use it I attack and attempt to bluff at the same time. Maybe you just aren't hitting with you attacks.

It makes a quick "attack animation" but not an actual attack. You have to use Improved Feint, then get in a real attack to deal sneak attack damage. The only real advantages to having Improved Feint is a quick activation, shorter cool-down, and a small AOE. It's usefulness does need to be looked at, especially with Deception weapons, and the new Radiance effect on greensteel items.

[parvo]

I've been using Bluff and Improved Feint for a while now. Trying anything I can to increase the independance(sp?) of my Thiefs. However both Bluff and IF are totally bonk.

Bluff isn't effective. First you have to be targeting an opponent. Second you have to be facing them. Third, it takes a long time to resolve. It should be changed to instant and AOE. It does have a very long range now, but why? You can't sneak attack something that is 100 feet away.

Improved Feint. Another example of incomplete work. First, there is no attack roll. Second, there is an extended delay before you can make an attack. Third, it breaks up an attack chain. Fourth, it stops your characters movement.

Niether ability is worth spending resources on. Both need an overhaul. Here's what I propose:

Bluff: Instant (like Diplomacy and Intimidate). AoE with no targeting requirement. Eliminate the need to target first. Decrease the range to 20 feet.

Improved Feint: Give it an attack roll (like Trip, Sunder and Stunning Blow). Eliminate the pause before character can make another attack. Eliminate it stopping the characters movement. Make it last longer than Bluff.

[krud]

Niether ability is worth spending resources on. Both need an overhaul. Here's what I propose:

Bluff: Instant (like Diplomacy and Intimidate). AoE with no targeting requirement. Eliminate the need to target first. Decrease the range to 20 feet.

Improved Feint: Give it an attack roll (like Trip, Sunder and Stunning Blow). Eliminate the pause before character can make another attack. Eliminate it stopping the characters movement. Make it last longer than Bluff.

OK, except I'm not sure AoE bluff would be good. It doesn't make any of the extra effects of IF worth the feat investment. I would rather make the sneak attack last for some duration (2sec) and keep bluff single target and IF AoE.

edit - or if bluff is AoE then only allow 1 sneak attack/mob (as it currently does) and give IF sneak attacks for some short duration.

[llevenbaxx]

OK, except I'm not sure AoE bluff would be good. It doesn't make any of the extra effects of IF worth the feat investment. I would rather make the sneak attack last for some duration (2sec) and keep bluff single target and IF AoE.

Thats what Id like to see too, a duration for IF. Compared to the other combat feat(trip-imp trip, stunning blow) bluff-imp fient are incredibly weak/inaffective. Trip basically makes a target unable to hit you while you pound them and stunning blow(with no prereq) is death sentence. The input to output just isnt anywhere near the same.

Not to mention I just dont get the IF Multi-mob bluff. So basically you can SA a bunch of mobs once(almost never enough to kill) and gain aggro but little more. It should have been made to be more affective on a single mob, what we have now seems like an after or no thought.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Improved feint does need an overhaul however. And bluff needs to be changed to an instantaneous effect like diplo and intimidate. I can only imagine they're scared it'll be used over and over for tons of sneak attacks... but I would much rather it work inside an attack chain with a long cooldown than the way it works now.

from playing my rogue this weekend, Diplomacy works a lot better than bluff.
Afffect more targets, don't need to face them and instant (almost). Sad since all my rogue took points in bluff, but not diplo.

[Lucian_Navarro]

I have a Way of the Assassin build which uses Improved Feint when he is in the thick of battle and I can confirm that it ONLY causes a Mass Bluff in place of my would be attack. The animation of a swing is seen, a mass bluff insues, icons appear over thier heads and then I have about 3 seconds to hit them before the bluff wears off.

Note: when the Improved Feint is used and bluff's them, they turn thier backs to me but they dont always stay in place as they turn and quickly move away. But rest assured after spending my valuable 3 seconds chasing them to get maybe 1 swing in then tactfully come out of the bluff to continue attacking me.

So in short, Yes... they need to either fix it or reword it as to how they really intend for it to work and at that point I will drop the feat.

HATH