Devs; Where is the love for THF?

[Cowdenicus]

I love when people make assumptions based on forum join date. He has been around since head start and I am a founder. Theres a funny saying about the word assume ill see if i can remember it.

Head Start and Founders = NOOBS.....

Beta Something

[nbhs275]

2 things. Wiki is not based on total facts, its user updated. Any of that information is questionable. Expecially when i could go on and change it so that the lances where 150 meters long and made out of midgets and duct tape.

Also, x4 crit makes a huge difference. like i showed before, the barbarian is going to out DPS anyone by a large margin, and that x4 crit would widen the margin more.

But yet again, the numbers.

barbarian +5 greataxe

1d12+33 str+22 PA +5 weapon = 61-72 damage, 183-216 crit (17-20/x3) 1795.5 <20 swing avg>

Barbarian +5 scythe

2d4+33 str +22 PA +5 weapon = 62-68 damage, 248-272 crit(17-20/x4) 2015 <20 swing avg>

Thats a 12&#37; increase in damage over a barbarian, imagine over something like, say a human fighter.

fighter +5 scythe

2d4+22 str+ 4feats+10 PA=38-44 damage, 152-176(19-20/x4) 1025 <20 swing avg>

So the barbarian is doing twice as much damage as the fighter.

Oh, and a third thing i would love to point out. Any weapon setup someone else can use, whether it be TWF, THF, S&B, the barbarian is going to do it just as well or better if specced for it. Hell, the barbarian will probably do better in THF then other classes even if he isnt specced for it.

[esoitl]

I think the avearage person could care less about weapon animations. Just look at daggers, short swords, rapiers. These are all 'stabbing' weapons but have always used the same animations as other 1hand melees.

Just make a couple of basic spear skins and use the great sword animation - who cares. Give us a 2handed piecer asap

funny how you stab with a warhammer as well

[ghale]

Was that comparison just trying to be silly? He mentioned comparing a Tempest ranger which you used but than equipped the Tempest ranger with a 2h weapon? The point of being a Tempest is for twf so to be fair to the argument he is trying to make you would need to compare 2h - 2wf.

It would seem that the point of this thread is to now improve thf to make it closer to twf which is now more powerful. You took an argument nobody would disagree with that with everyone using a 2h weapon the barbarian will do more damage. Compare the average 2h meleer and compare that to twf rogues/rangers and you'll find the point he was trying to make.

[Tolero]

Please continue the discussion without name calling and insults, or the discussion will be closed.

[JFeenstra]

Back on topic, yes scythes and spears would be cool. I don't think the fact that Barbs have an overpowered enhancement at level 11 and 13 should prevent their eventual inclusion. Once those are added, gimme Monkey Grip and I'll be soooo happy.

yes, because dual weilding scythes isn't uber

[WeaselKing]

What do they call a 2 handed pick?

A big a$$ pick.

[nbhs275]

yes, because dual weilding scythes isn't uber

as said countless times before. Monkey grip doesnt allow you to use a 2handed weapon in one, it increases the size of the weapon your wielding. And anyways, if your looking for a 1handed x4 crit, picks are already in game.

[Accelerando]

2 things. Wiki is not based on total facts, its user updated. Any of that information is questionable. Expecially when i could go on and change it so that the lances where 150 meters long and made out of midgets and duct tape.

The argument that information gleaned from Wikipedia is suspect because it is user moderated is moot. Try to post that about lances and see how long it lasts. Wikipedia is constantly and vigilantly patrolled by Mods who make it their job, although they are unpaid, to assure that things like what you have mentioned rarely last more than a few hours or days. Although Wikipedia is no longer accepted as a source for research papers in colleges it is still a good and reliable resource for information on many topics. The fact remains that lances can be both short polearms, and long polearms. A previous posters assertion that he had never seen a lance under 12 feet in length and therefor they did not exist was laughable, and I provided one quick source, other than my own personal experience, that proved it so. If you wish to do some more in depth research on lances feel free to find a source that you deem credible, and you will find that the information is much the same. I do not wish to spend any more time on this issue as that is not the reason that I posted this thread in the first place.

Lances, however, would make a great addition to THF in this game. I would love to see them. This thread is still about piercing weapons for THF, not DPS. I don't understand some people's need to hijack threads and argue.

[JFeenstra]

as said countless times before. Monkey grip doesnt allow you to use a 2handed weapon in one, it increases the size of the weapon your wielding. And anyways, if your looking for a 1handed x4 crit, picks are already in game.

actually, it allows you to use larger size weapons

as ddo does not have weapons sizes, simply 1h and 2h, the feat will likely never get implimented

[Accelerando]

as said countless times before. Monkey grip doesnt allow you to use a 2handed weapon in one, it increases the size of the weapon your wielding. And anyways, if your looking for a 1handed x4 crit, picks are already in game.

I was under the impression that it allowed you to wield a weapon one size larger than normal in your main hand. I could be wrong (I could not find this feat in the SRD) but I do know that the recent video game implementation (NWN, NWN2) of Monkey Grip allowed Human sized characters to wield two handed weapons in one hand, or for a Halfling sized character to use Longswords. However I do agree that a TWF with scythes would be quite a bit over the top. On that note does Monkey Grip even apply to one's off hand? I don't believe it does.

[Vormaerin]

The original implementation in 3.0 more or less let you use a two handed weapon in one hand. The implementation in 3.5 essentially gutted the feat and now you can use oversized weapons without penalty. So a halfling could use a human's longsword in one hand instead of two. But not use a halfling sized greatsword in one hand. Is it a stupid feat with a needlessly complicated implementation? Oh yes.

Regarding lances... it was quite common in certain periods for knights to cut down their lances for use on foot. I'm not sure there's much practical purpose to having foot lances separate from other spear type weapons, though.

[nbhs275]

I was under the impression that it allowed you to wield a weapon one size larger than normal in your main hand. I could be wrong (I could not find this feat in the SRD) but I do know that the recent video game implementation (NWN, NWN2) of Monkey Grip allowed Human sized characters to wield two handed weapons in one hand, or for a Halfling sized character to use Longswords. However I do agree that a TWF with scythes would be quite a bit over the top. On that note does Monkey Grip even apply to one's off hand? I don't believe it does.

we already have 1handed scythes, they are called picks. Unless your willing to lose a feat and attack bonus for an average of 1 more damage.

[Gunga]

we already have 1handed scythes, they are called picks. Unless your willing to lose a feat and attack bonus for an average of 1 more damage.

Are they? Do you know what a scythe looks like?

[nbhs275]

Are they? Do you know what a scythe looks like?

yea. I wasnt saying they look the same, was saying the damage was nearly the same without the need for feats.

Nice troll post

[Desteria]

I would liek to see a 2hd peircign wepon optionin DDO because they added creachers with peirce DR btu no 2hd weapon with wich to bupass it if that is your spec in PnP there are lots + you can in pnp always weild most 1hd weaposn 2hd and get all the benifits fo a 2hd weapon.
I know your all going to say but want abotu transmuting well yes NOW that is an uption BUT maby just maby you woudl liek a better over all weapon ie: you dotn want to waste +3/4 (not sure excaly what transumtign counts as) or your avalible encments to just bypass DR.
I think ALL 2handed weaposn should use the G-axe/Maul animatiosn becasue it;s retarted that a greatsword/falction etc swing slower fro no real reason the weapons are purty well balanced by there base stats btu the slower swing speed messes it all up.

[Gunga]

yea. I wasnt saying they look the same, was saying the damage was nearly the same without the need for feats.

Nice troll post

Oh I thought you were just comparing an obvious slashing weapon to an obvious piercing weapon. And none of really care about a point of damage but what the piercers may offer over the slashers (puncturing anyone?) . If comparisons are made clearly, people could even understand troll logic.

[nbhs275]

Oh I thought you were just comparing an obvious slashing weapon to an obvious piercing weapon. And none of really care about a point of damage but what the piercers may offer over the slashers (puncturing anyone?) . If comparisons are made clearly, people could even understand troll logic.

whats with people wanting punturing on picks/scythes? even for barbarians its more effective to just use a wounder.

[Accelerando]

whats with people wanting punturing on picks/scythes? even for barbarians its more effective to just use a wounder.

How exactly is it more effective to use a wounding weapon over a wounding/puncturing weapon?

[nbhs275]

How exactly is it more effective to use a wounding weapon over a wounding/puncturing weapon?

A wounder is better then a puncturing, i never meantioned a w/p. And as anyone with the math skills of a third grader can tell you any wounding weapon is going to do more con damage then a puncturing pick. Only a ****ing moron would say that wounding alone is better then WoP. And guess what? im not a ****ing moron

Oh, and yea, wiki is not a reliable source no matter what. Its a user based source, meaning the content isnt going to be right alot of the time. Example, awhile back some loser was posing as a history professor(or something similiar) and was updating and moderating the wiki, but in reality he had zero knowledge of anything he was writing. ANY, ill repeat, ANY internet site can be completly inaccurate, so any data pulled from the web is always to be suspect of false data.


And back onto a point you said earlier, there is no way you could make any kind of slashing offence with a lance. It has no edge to it, and its range of motion is probably only 6-7inches either way on a horizontal plane. Go out in your back yard, hold a 12 foot pole under one are with 10 feet of it out in front of you and try to swing it. The way its held doesnt allow you to transfer force in a side-to-side motion, only with a jabbing lunge.


And finally, back to my original point, there shouldnt be lances in DDO. They are intending as a mounted weapon in PnP, nothing more, nothing less. And until we get mounts in DDO, we have no need for it.

And THF needs no love, giving piercing or x4 crit to it would be overbalance it compared to S&B AND TWF.