Human Versatility - A Spellcaster's Perspective

[bandyman1]

Sorry bro, but I'd have to disagree here.

The main point being that wizards need the extra spell pen boost from enhancements and free feat slots from free metamagics, in addition to thier versatility of spell selection, in order to remain viable compared to sorcs. Sure sorcs can still take the feats...but in doing so they limit their available metamagic and other feat options.

Now I know if this were implemented that a human wizard would see the same benefits, but the wizard needs those benifits exclusively, over the sorc in order to remain a viable class.

Perhaps I'd agree with the DC boost, but I agree that +4 is a little potent. Maybe +2.

[QuixoticDan]

To keep in line with the OP:

Maybe some boosts that use up the HV boosts per day, but are purchased on a separate enhancement line, like a rogue with Way of the Mechanic getting that WF heal. Having one set for spell DC's (+1 at rank 1, +2 at rank 2), one for spell pen (+1 at rank 1, +3 at rank 2), maybe a set for casting speed and interruptability, maybe even a set for mana costs (-1 mana/cast at rank 1, -3 mana/cast at rank 2).

As a side note, getting a little extra AC isn't too bad, getting a bonus to Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Concentration is probably underrated, and everybody makes saving throws eventually. I do agree that, specifically, casters are a bit left out of the list (unless the damage bonus could apply to spells somehow).

To follow with how the thread is 'splaying out' a bit in idea:

HV is a really great clickie, and if used right can patch up a lot of holes in a multiclass build (for 20 seconds). I think one thing would be really sweet, but maybe imbalancing...if the HV boost was on a separate cooldown from existing class boosts (fighter AC boost, ranger/rogue skill boosts). Based on what I remember from the descriptions, it's an untyped boost, so they would both stack if they could be used at the same time.

Improved Recovery is nice to have, pretty much all my humans take the first rank (and I do like playing humans). The other ranks are a bit expensive. And I'm inclined to agree, the high level requirement on the stat boosts (and the fact that you can't double up on a single stat) doesn't combine well with the high AP cost, especially if you're focusing on class enhancements more than purely human enhancements.

[Snoggy]

I'm a little stuck on the basic concept. Human racials should boost arcane spellcasting ... because?

[QuixoticDan]

Arcane and Divine. Because the enhancement lines currently representing the inherently versatile nature of humanity don't reflect casting classes...at least, not to the extent they reflect melee- and skill-based classes.

[Aesop]

I'm a little stuck on the basic concept. Human racials should boost arcane spellcasting ... because?

I think because humans are good at everything is the theory.

Maybe instead a boost that lowers SP costs by its level +1 so 2,3,4,and 5 for 20 sec

Aesop

[MysticTheurge]

I'm a little stuck on the basic concept. Human racials should boost arcane spellcasting ... because?

Versatile:

capable of or adapted for turning easily from one to another of various tasks, fields of endeavor, etc.

[honkuimushi]

How about 1 combined clickie for spellcasting? This might be a little stronger than the other boosts, but as has been mentioned, most casters don't have a lot of use for the otherw, while melee characters will use several of the boosts.

HV I -10% SP, +10% Damage
HV II +1 DC, +1 Spell Penetration
HV III -10% (20% total) SP, +10%(20% total) Damage
HV IV +1 DC (+2 total) , +1(+2 total) Spell Penetration

So with HV IV, you get a 20% discount on spell points, do 20% more damage, and have +2 to DC and Spell penetration. But you can only do that 5 times per rest in 20 bursts. The fact that these are somewhat at cross purposes should help balace it. On a damage spell, the damage enhancement is nice, but the spell penetration doesn't matter at all and the DC is less important. On spells like holld and FoD, the damage is less important, but the DC and spell penetration are very valuable. When you include the casting times, that should provide even more balance. A melee character will attack many more times in 20 than a caster will be able to cast.

[Hvymetal]

I'm a little stuck on the basic concept. Human racials should boost arcane spellcasting ... because?

The same reason Dwarves get a boost to divine spell points?

[FluffyCalico]

Firstly, before I begin, I will put forth that my current main character is a human caster. So, take that for what you will, however, I feel that Human Versatility could/should be expanded a bit in its functionality.

It just seems like the human versatility boost is designed around melee-type characters. AC, Saves, To-Hit....all useful for a melee. However, what about human casters? Could not human versatility be made more...utilitarian??

The essential proposal is to add one or both of these options to the human versatility enhancement:
1. Spell Penetration Levels - e.g. HV1 - gain +1 to spell penetration rolls for duration; HV2 - gain +2 to spell penetration rolls for duration, etc.
2. Spell DC's - e.g. HV1 - gain +1 to spell DC's for duration; HV2 - gain +2 to spell DC's for duration; etc.\

Yeah, I know, people are gonna say "the devs could be working on more important things" or "revert HV to a static bonus" or tons of things of that nature. That's fine if you want to, but the importance is a non-issue for me and boosting HV is here to stay, I believe.

It's just an idea, so, discuss.

UM NO WAY!! If you give humans +4 spell DC for human versitility 4 that is like giving them +8 to their casting stat. Or 4 free feats in every school for free. Last time I checked humans got 1 free feat already the last thing they need is 24 more free feat.

[FluffyCalico]

How about 1 combined clickie for spellcasting? This might be a little stronger than the other boosts, but as has been mentioned, most casters don't have a lot of use for the otherw, while melee characters will use several of the boosts.

HV I -10% SP, +10% Damage
HV II +1 DC, +1 Spell Penetration
HV III -10% (20% total) SP, +10%(20% total) Damage
HV IV +1 DC (+2 total) , +1(+2 total) Spell Penetration

So with HV IV, you get a 20% discount on spell points, do 20% more damage, and have +2 to DC and Spell penetration. But you can only do that 5 times per rest in 20 bursts. The fact that these are somewhat at cross purposes should help balace it. On a damage spell, the damage enhancement is nice, but the spell penetration doesn't matter at all and the DC is less important. On spells like holld and FoD, the damage is less important, but the DC and spell penetration are very valuable. When you include the casting times, that should provide even more balance. A melee character will attack many more times in 20 than a caster will be able to cast.

Build a drow and stop asking for free feats. It boosts your skills +4 like diplomancy etc