Race bonuses fix.

[Tythriel]

In my opinion the race bonuses in DDO are flawed. I hear complaints about there being way to many drow in the game, and its true there are ALOT. But the main reason could be that, theres NO other race that gets an Int or Cha bonus. 2 races get +2 Dex (Elf and Halfling) and the other 2 +2 Constitution (Dwarf and WF).

You'd think an Elf would also be Intelligent, a Halfling would be charismatic (or maybe I just think they'd make good entertainment because they're short...), and Warforges would be strong due to their mechanical nature. Im just saying an extra Stat boost would go a long way in keeping the races unique and spread throughout DDO. The drow would still be the upper class and worthy of being an unlockable goal because of the three different stat raises but the other classes would still be alittle more sought after and played.

Just my two cents I noticed will playing with the character creator. Oh and I didnt forget the Dwarf. I just couldn't think of a good extra stat to raise for them. Was thinking possibly wisdom.

[Amaras]

*points to the 3.5E rule books* Not according to these

[Uska]

Well sorry you would be wrong bonus follow the game that spawned ddo and shouldnt be any changes to that. We dont need to escalate the power level any more then it is, one bonus stat is enough for the other races.

[Angelus_dead]

In my opinion the race bonuses in DDO are flawed. I hear complaints about there being way to many drow in the game, and its true there are ALOT. But the main reason could be that, theres NO other race that gets an Int or Cha bonus.

It is acceptable now, because drow cannot have 32 point builds. That's rather like +4 freely-chosen stat bonuses to every other race.

[FluffyCalico]

It is acceptable now, because drow cannot have 32 point builds. That's rather like +4 freely-chosen stat bonuses to every other race.

Weather or not drow or 32 point builds should be allowed is dead as they already have been. As for overpowering races that already are here breaking the last of DnD rules would be bad.

[Naturelaughslast]

Race bonuses are in the handbook and are applied as such, they are as they should be. What the devs can do is some more balancing with the enhancement lines for many of the races- some are just much more appealing especially with the inflated numbers in the game. I am aware they know of this but no idea when they will get around to working on it.

[FluffyCalico]

Race bonuses are in the handbook and are applied as such, they are as they should be. What the devs can do is some more balancing with the enhancement lines for many of the races- some are just much more appealing especially with the inflated numbers in the game. I am aware they know of this but no idea when they will get around to working on it.

If they want to balance it they should eliminate the enhancements all together then just like the handbook all would be balanced. The enhancements they invented are the problem not the solution

[Turial]

Racial enhancement bonuses seem to follow the basic layout of the racial paragon classes from the pnp supplement series without making people take 3 levels of basic race.

[FluffyCalico]

Racial enhancement bonuses seem to follow the basic layout of the racial paragon classes from the pnp supplement series without making people take 3 levels of basic race.

I was talking about the action point enhancement BS not the DnD racial benifits.

[Turial]

Yes...the paragon racial classes give additional bonuses to favored stats for a particular race as well as other bonuses that are similar to our enhancement system. Halfling and elf paragon classes give bonuses to weapons like out racial enhancements and its likely that turbine my have simply extrapolated the system out more.

I'm not personally supporting the enhancement system was just postulating where some of it may have come from as many things in DDO have roots in the source book unearthed arcane.

[Emili]

Yes...the paragon racial classes give additional bonuses to favored stats for a particular race as well as other bonuses that are similar to our enhancement system. Halfling and elf paragon classes give bonuses to weapons like out racial enhancements and its likely that turbine my have simply extrapolated the system out more.

I'm not personally supporting the enhancement system was just postulating where some of it may have come from as many things in DDO have roots in the source book unearthed arcane.

Really, it's the fact that the racial enhancements add in addition to the basic racial bonus' ie.) elf, drow and halfling get +2 dex... + another +2 dex out of enhancements, elf gets free matial weapons with longsword, rapier or ranged bows + enhancements which support such further, Dwarves get dwarven axe proficiency free + enhancements which support such further... thus the basis of what the races divied up in strengths and weakness in DnD are further spread apart in DDO.

[Serpent]

How about this idea. Make human Versatility static like it used to be, so Humans have some sort of reason to be played over getting 1 extra feat.

Now there is an enhancement that needs to be considered.

[Uska]

How about this idea. Make human Versatility static like it used to be, so Humans have some sort of reason to be played over getting 1 extra feat.

Now there is an enhancement that needs to be considered.

No they also get bonus skill points at creation and a bonus every level humans are fine as they are, besides an extra feat is a pretty sweet.

[Serpent]

No they also get bonus skill points at creation and a bonus every level humans are fine as they are, besides an extra feat is a pretty sweet.

Then how come people play others races for say +2 to damage and +4 on saves, If Humans are so sweet how come they are the most underrepresented race in stormreach?

Also How does an extra +1 to skills really help anyone, except a rogue or bard that skill point is negligible and rogues are usually far better off as halflings while bards are far better off as drow.

if we had a better feat selection that one extr feat might be good, but from what I ahve seen jsut looking at builds on the classes forums, nearly 0 of them require a human as race to meet build requirements, but nearly all suggests another race for damage bonus to weapons.

[Draiden]

Then how come people play others races for say +2 to damage and +4 on saves, If Humans are so sweet how come they are the most underrepresented race in stormreach?

Also How does an extra +1 to skills really help anyone, except a rogue or bard that skill point is negligible and rogues are usually far better off as halflings while bards are far better off as drow.

if we had a better feat selection that one extr feat might be good, but from what I ahve seen jsut looking at builds on the classes forums, nearly 0 of them require a human as race to meet build requirements, but nearly all suggests another race for damage bonus to weapons.

Because most players aren't savvy enough to realize how potent human build can be- to answer your initial question. Human Vers (even as a clicky) is uber, Human Imp Recovery is wow, two +1 stat enhancements is cool and the extra feat is a DREAM! In most cases, the extra feat is more valuable than a pidly +2 to a primary stat. Take a sorc, for example. A drow sorc can get to a 39 cha in today's game, while a human can get to 38. But the human gets an extra feat, human imp recovery (for self healing with umd), human versatility (to use heal scrolls in a pinch until you get your goggles made ), and another +1 to whatever dump stat you would like. Why roll a drow sorc when the sorcerer is already a feat-starved class as it is? AND take a -2 to con, a stat that is already weak for this class?! I dunno, my experience is that humans really make the best builds for many situations- but I'm NOT saying ALL. My main is a sorc, has a 38 cha and more hp's than any other sorc out there- I'm willing to wager. And I have an extra feat. For those of you who rely on kill counts to validate your char's? Always on top by a longshot- unless I'm with DrXav (16lvl CLR). (Yo, Xavvy) More importantly, however, I can step back and toss heal scrolls for +186 per cast and 100% accuracy WITHOUT hitting Human Versatility.

You're right- humans are not exceptionally represented in stormreach. The answer to 'why' is because of my initial statement, and maybe some players see a human in a fantasy adventure game as a little boring. *shrugs*

[Uska]

Then how come people play others races for say +2 to damage and +4 on saves, If Humans are so sweet how come they are the most underrepresented race in stormreach?

Also How does an extra +1 to skills really help anyone, except a rogue or bard that skill point is negligible and rogues are usually far better off as halflings while bards are far better off as drow.

if we had a better feat selection that one extr feat might be good, but from what I ahve seen jsut looking at builds on the classes forums, nearly 0 of them require a human as race to meet build requirements, but nearly all suggests another race for damage bonus to weapons.

Because some people dont pay atttention humans have lots of advantages its why I have a few of them. The extra skill point is actually better for the lower skilled classes then one like rogues, bards or wizards, it allows fighters to keep boosting itim and balance maybe instead of just one of them or whatever addtional skill they wish.

[Emili]

Because most players aren't savvy enough to realize how potent human build can be- to answer your initial question. Human Vers (even as a clicky) is uber, Human Imp Recovery is wow, two +1 stat enhancements is cool and the extra feat is a DREAM! In most cases, the extra feat is more valuable than a pidly +2 to a primary stat. Take a sorc, for example. A drow sorc can get to a 39 cha in today's game, while a human can get to 38. But the human gets an extra feat, human imp recovery (for self healing with umd), human versatility (to use heal scrolls in a pinch until you get your goggles made ), and another +1 to whatever dump stat you would like. Why roll a drow sorc when the sorcerer is already a feat-starved class as it is? AND take a -2 to con, a stat that is already weak for this class?! I dunno, my experience is that humans really make the best builds for many situations- but I'm NOT saying ALL. My main is a sorc, has a 38 cha and more hp's than any other sorc out there- I'm willing to wager. And I have an extra feat. For those of you who rely on kill counts to validate your char's? Always on top by a longshot- unless I'm with DrXav (16lvl CLR). (Yo, Xavvy) More importantly, however, I can step back and toss heal scrolls for +186 per cast and 100% accuracy WITHOUT hitting Human Versatility.

You're right- humans are not exceptionally represented in stormreach. The answer to 'why' is because of my initial statement, and maybe some players see a human in a fantasy adventure game as a little boring. *shrugs*

I know plenty of other sorc who have just as much umd - it tops you know... and they have plenty of points to put elsewhere... did you forget they start at 10 int also? So the 2 more points you start in con is like thier 2 points in int so when it comes to skill points they're not too far off of human in skill baselines... and is almost as cheap to build a skills toon in that respect as when they take 16 still paying 1 build point there and should they take 18 they still have 4 left to put into that con or dex etc... What you really get as being human is an extra feat (which is nice but you must weigh in what you're using that feat for) Casters can always use an extra feat many classes can, until you reach into upper levels and look at the feat chains of some classes.

Human's are decent in some classes... but not as veristile in all. I build for level 20... at that point the average drow will be at 40 cha and the human 39... not much for +1 dc and some sp. Truth of the matter though human is suppose to be more versitile then it is... many min/maxers may leave some stats as dump stats ... thus the middle of the road human falls a little on the way-side. They make decent sorc... good pallys and good bards, even a decent wizard. They make good clerics and very good rogues... you must build them right though to create a good fighter, barbarian or ranger type. The extra feat is a nice but I do not believe the OP is comparing base DnD... extra feat and skill points are the base... but often overshadowed by ehancements of some races, every hear of epic feats such as greater dexterity? etc... The potential +2 prime is actually a potential +4 to a prime in some classes. btw ... there are plenty of other races who can cast heal scrolls just as accurately just because they do not have human recovery does not mean they have not put thier ap's elsewhere and shine somewhere else... ie.) a reflex save...

It all comes down to really planning out a build... forseeing it to 20+. Humans in general though do fall on the weak side in enhancements as thy're not as versitile as thier race could be. 1/3rd on my sig are human btw... where the extra feat and skill is nice there is always something in another racial line you have to make up for it.

[Uska]

I know plenty of other sorc who have just as much umd - it tops you know... and they have plenty of points to put elsewhere... did you forget they start at 10 int also? So the 2 more points you start in con is like thier 2 points in int so when it comes to skill points they're not too far off of human in skill baselines... and is almost as cheap to build a skills toon in that respect as when they take 16 still paying 1 build point there and should they take 18 they still have 4 left to put into that con or dex etc... What you really get as being human is an extra feat (which is nice but you must weigh in what you're using that feat for) Casters can always use an extra feat many classes can, until you reach into upper levels and look at the feat chains of some classes.

Human's are decent in some classes... but not as veristile in all. I build for level 20... at that point the average drow will be at 40 cha and the human 39... not much for +1 dc and some sp. Truth of the matter though human is suppose to be more versitile then it is... many min/maxers may leave some stats as dump stats ... thus the middle of the road human falls a little on the way-side. They make decent sorc... good pallys and good bards, even a decent wizard. They make good clerics and very good rogues... you must build them right though to create a good fighter, barbarian or ranger type. The extra feat is a nice but I do not believe the OP is comparing base DnD... extra feat and skill points are the base... but often overshadowed by ehancements of some races, every hear of epic feats such as greater dexterity? etc... The potential +2 prime is actually a potential +4 to a prime in some classes. btw ... there are plenty of other races who can cast heal scrolls just as accurately just because they do not have human recovery does not mean they have not put thier ap's elsewhere and shine somewhere else... ie.) a reflex save...

It all comes down to really planning out a build... forseeing it to 20+. Humans in general though do fall on the weak side in enhancements as thy're not as versitile as thier race could be. 1/3rd on my sig are human btw... where the extra feat and skill is nice there is always something in another racial line you have to make up for it.

I dont think the average drow will be at 40 as that will take a tome and no enchancment can really make up for a feat and the penalty to con is really bad. Humans can make great wizards remember they get an extra boost to stats other races cant yah a drow might have one more in a stat and might not.

[FluffyCalico]

Then how come people play others races for say +2 to damage and +4 on saves, If Humans are so sweet how come they are the most underrepresented race in stormreach?

Also How does an extra +1 to skills really help anyone, except a rogue or bard that skill point is negligible and rogues are usually far better off as halflings while bards are far better off as drow.

if we had a better feat selection that one extr feat might be good, but from what I ahve seen jsut looking at builds on the classes forums, nearly 0 of them require a human as race to meet build requirements, but nearly all suggests another race for damage bonus to weapons.

Because most people aren't very smart. here's an example for you

Do clerics like healing WF that do not have healers friend? No because it takes so much more to heal them. Well guess what humans are almost as far above the rest of the races as they are above WF without healers friend in terms on HP healed per spell! Also how many people are ruining a charcter trying for a few more UMD? Tons that could just get it by being human. In short, and this has always been true in DnD; unless you have a reason to specifically be something else then choose human. Are there good reasons to be something else? Sure there are, but 99% of people choose something else without really thinking.

[boldarblood]

Take a sorc, for example. A drow sorc can get to a 39 cha in today's game

Afaik you can reach 40 with a Drow. Need to get the necklace out of Abbot that is +1 to all stats and stacks with everything.