The most-needed class

[Aesop]

Because people were complaining they spent too many resources on healing while completing The Shroud.

Therefore, they have established a success condition: completing the raid with no Heal scrolls. Techniques which lead to fulfillment of that condition are "right". Methods leading to other outcomes are "wrong".

As I already explained twice, if you have some other goal aside from a fast and inexpensive victory, then your judgement of what is right or wrong may differ. Prehaps you'd like to try a naked muckbane Shroud run, or something else silly. But for the generic goal of winning the quest without spending resources, there are techniques that are simply better than the others.

um... ok. I guess given the context that's ... almost reasonable. I just find the whole "ideal Party makeup" idea to be silly over all. I'd rather play the game and enjoy the different ways to accomplish things over the almost robot like way a lot of people approach it. My right way is that everyone has fun.

Aesop

[Draclaud]

Favored Soul. Seriously.

Look in your group window; what are all the parties looking for? Clerics. Why? Because no other class can/will heal. You can argue all you want that "clerics aren't necessary, you just need to learn how to play", and then spout suggestions to spend a million plat on potions and wands, but most of us don't have that kind of cash, and even if we did, we'd rather spend it on sharp, pointy things.

Usually this discussion turns to druids, and if they were given healing abilities commensurate with clerics', that would be fine, but then you have two nearly identical classes. While I would like to see all of the base classes implemented, druid is towards the bottom of the list.

Another possibility would be to implement a better system for healing in-between battles (more healing clickies, maybe?), but I'd rather see the shaman.

Yes clerics are the most needed class. Outside of an all WF wizard group, most groups would need a cleric in high level stuff. As to druids and clerics being nearly identical...I have to disagree with you there. Druids are ALOT more offensive in nature. Take a look at their spell list. You'll even see a few mage spells on that list.

[Aspenor]

First, buffs for the party come better from bards and clerics, which you'll have anyway.

Secondly, the priorities for wizards or sorcs are
1. Kill gnolls before they can heal anyone
2. Crowd-control bearded devils (mainly Heightened Web)
3. Debuff rays on Arraetrikos
4. Kill-steal on Arraetrikos when he'd down to 1% hp

Depending on the difficulty level if you happen to have 2 casters (which I know you don't run it that way but some people do) you can just both nuke the snot out of the pit fiend most of the fight. With a few decent DPS melees/rangers and 2 sorcerers unloading force and lightning the pit fiend (on normal of course, this strategy not so applicable on hard or elite) will go down easily in the 2nd pass. The sorcs may nearly run out of juice but the clerics will be at like 3/4 or more.

[maddmatt70]

Favored Soul. Seriously.

Look in your group window; what are all the parties looking for? Clerics. Why? Because no other class can/will heal. You can argue all you want that "clerics aren't necessary, you just need to learn how to play", and then spout suggestions to spend a million plat on potions and wands, but most of us don't have that kind of cash, and even if we did, we'd rather spend it on sharp, pointy things.

Usually this discussion turns to druids, and if they were given healing abilities commensurate with clerics', that would be fine, but then you have two nearly identical classes. While I would like to see all of the base classes implemented, druid is towards the bottom of the list.

Another possibility would be to implement a better system for healing in-between battles (more healing clickies, maybe?), but I'd rather see the shaman.

We can't help it that nobody knows how to play a healing bard because there is your answer right there.. Clerics are unnecessary in every quest and I mean every quest in the game at any difficulty - just insert healing bard and you have your solution. DDO players need to go back to the school of ddo playing and that is a fact.. You don't need to spend jack on scrolls and wands on a bard and can keep other players up no problem end of story.

[Oran_Lathor]

I don't know about all this right way wrong way stuff, but I know a group of 11 rangers and 1 bard who killed the fiend on the 2nd pass with 0 difficulty and 0 resources used. I'm willing to bet 12 good arcanes could do the same, though it would be close on whether SP pools held up.

[maddmatt70]

I don't know about all this right way wrong way stuff, but I know a group of 11 rangers and 1 bard who killed the fiend on the 2nd pass with 0 difficulty and 0 resources used. I'm willing to bet 12 good arcanes could do the same, though it would be close on whether SP pools held up.

Bah what's your point a group of 1 rogue, 2 fighters, 2 pallys, 3 barbarians, 3 rangers, and 1 bard beat the shroud last night and we meleed him just like you would with a cleric. 12 arcanes could easily fight the pitfiend on normally heck they could melee him especially if there was 6 sorcs (umd heal scrolls) or 6 wf arcanes in group healing one another or themselves..

[Oran_Lathor]

Good to hear Maddmatt, as my point was (like yours) that many different groups are viable, and you don't need clerics (or bards) throwing resources at you all the time.