Potions as clickies - great change or not?

[Shade]

NEW The following potions are now equipped with funnels so they can be used on afflicted friends: Potion of Fear Removal, Potion of Poison Neutralization, Potion of Blindness Removal, Potion of Curse Removal, Potion of Disease Removal, Woodblossom Mead, and Crimson Nightshade Infusion. The new funnels are especially easy to use so raging barbarians should have no problems with them.

Here's a few great reasons why there chaining more potions into clickies to make the game more fun:
Remove Fear:
Ok you just got feared by that kobold shaman, good thing you have that potion. Drink it - you cannot do that you are feared (cannot use clickies while feared)
Remove Curse/Poison/Disease:
Ok your doing shroud and your new to phase 4 so you are not quite equiped with all the imunity items yet.. you got cursed by a bearded devil and poisoned and disease from the pit fiend - now luckily you saved and carry potions... Ok drink remove curse potoion - you cannot do that you have madstone rage... Ok wait 30 seconds, its gone, drink - uh oh 10 seconds on poison timer and 5 on disease - drink remove disease potion - you cannot do that, clicky timer is not up - you take strength damage, ok 6 secnds later - drink it, good.. Oh no, poison is at 5 seconds - cannot drink neutralize poison - you die.
Woodblossom Mead, and Crimson Nightshade Infusion:
These are those great potions you get in tangleroot gorge.. Ok so your doing the slayers and collected a few of these things.. Running around, doing the slayers and you then need to use one, ok click.. animation going.. Interupted by getting tripped by a wolf.. No problem, try again.. oh interupted by getting tripped by a goblin , ok no problem, jump in water to try - cannot use clickes in water.. Ok try in mid air - interupted by animation fault.. Great.
Blindness Removal:
Ok so you got blinded in some dungeon, your running around like mad trying not to get hit searching for that remove blindness potion in your backpack.. Sweet you found it - click - doesn't work.. What happen? ok you grabbed a ledge or ladder since your blind so it wont work now, please wait 6 seconds.

Also please make water breathing potions like this, would be more fun to not be able to use those underwater.

....
Constructive feedback: The idea of potions with funnels has merits and surely some uses to certain players.. But giving all the problems it will cause I think it needs some serious thought and tech to make it work correctly and avoid all these issues.

[maddmatt70]

For some reason they have decided to give clerics more work - I am not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. The most hideous example is your 12 man raid example. Lets just say in the future in a 12 man raid there is a condition that a pot could remove, but most players will not be able to protect against it then you get people constantly yelling out or typing the condition they have and the clerics having to remove that condition. Kind of annoying to say the least. These changes makes the game evermore cleric dependent which I think is a bad thing.

[Sem34]

All this did was make these the same as the potions of remove paralysis… for me really don’t care (since I carry wands of these) but what I see happening is now on top of what the cleric/casters are carrying they have to carry potions to cure the ones that don’t even carry cure light wounds… heck I know of founders that still don’t carry their own pots.

I remember back when you got blinded/cursed/poisoned you where screwed if you did not come prepared for the quest. Let’s just make this game even more WoW friendly.

again really don't care still going to play the way I play...

[Lifespawn]

clerics don't have to carry the extra pots if people don't take care of them selves with basic pots and stuff let them die and place them in your pocket.

Tough love does work....spread the "love"

[Kire]

Here's a few great reasons why there chaining more potions into clickies to make the game more fun:
Remove Fear:
Ok you just got feared by that kobold shaman, good thing you have that potion. Drink it - you cannot do that you are feared (cannot use clickies while feared)
Remove Curse/Poison/Disease:
Ok your doing shroud and your new to phase 4 so you are not quite equiped with all the imunity items yet.. you got cursed by a bearded devil and poisoned and disease from the pit fiend - now luckily you saved and carry potions... Ok drink remove curse potoion - you cannot do that you have madstone rage... Ok wait 30 seconds, its gone, drink - uh oh 10 seconds on poison timer and 5 on disease - drink remove disease potion - you cannot do that, clicky timer is not up - you take strength damage, ok 6 secnds later - drink it, good.. Oh no, poison is at 5 seconds - cannot drink neutralize poison - you die.
Woodblossom Mead, and Crimson Nightshade Infusion:
These are those great potions you get in tangleroot gorge.. Ok so your doing the slayers and collected a few of these things.. Running around, doing the slayers and you then need to use one, ok click.. animation going.. Interupted by getting tripped by a wolf.. No problem, try again.. oh interupted by getting tripped by a goblin , ok no problem, jump in water to try - cannot use clickes in water.. Ok try in mid air - interupted by animation fault.. Great.
Blindness Removal:
Ok so you got blinded in some dungeon, your running around like mad trying not to get hit searching for that remove blindness potion in your backpack.. Sweet you found it - click - doesn't work.. What happen? ok you grabbed a ledge or ladder since your blind so it wont work now, please wait 6 seconds.

Also please make water breathing potions like this, would be more fun to not be able to use those underwater.

....
Constructive feedback: The idea of potions with funnels has merits and surely some uses to certain players.. But giving all the problems it will cause I think it needs some serious thought and tech to make it work correctly and avoid all these issues.

Couple things:

You can use pots (even the clicky ones) when raged. in any form. They fixed that.

The blindness thing, You can't drink a pot on a ladder anyway, even when its not acting like a clicky.

Being tripped: You can't drink pots while being tripped. THIS MAKES SENSE. typically when you fall you hit your head correct? Ok. Your pots are in your backpack correct? So unless you fall on your face, Reach behind your back, grab the pot, and drink while on your stomach you cant drink it. you fall on your back you cant get into your pack. Stop zerging, kill the thing, drink the pot, move on.

The multipy Debuff scene: Poision Immun can be drank before hand and last quite some time. Get in the habit. Why drink remove curse before remove disease? Slow down and think about it. You're going to be standing there drinking pots. Better to take out the timed one first. Adjust.

Water Breathing Pots: You can use pots underwater for some strange reason (drinking liquid in liquid?) so doesnt change anything. Also you might want to spend 2k plat on AH and get a UA item.

OK thats everything.

You do know that these pots only look like the clickie animation. Really everything else is the same. Cept Cooldown.

For some reason they have decided to give clerics more work - I am not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. The most hideous example is your 12 man raid example. Lets just say in the future in a 12 man raid there is a condition that a pot could remove, but most players will not be able to protect against it then you get people constantly yelling out or typing the condition they have and the clerics having to remove that condition. Kind of annoying to say the least. These changes makes the game evermore cleric dependent which I think is a bad thing.

Uhm... How does this make more stress on cleric? If you PuG alot as a cleric then yeah, your going to run into groups that dont carry all the pots, but atleast now you won't have to waste SP on getting rid of stupid debuffs. You can do them with some-what in-expensive pots. If there was a condition that could not be protected against you as a cleric are going to have to heal it away anyway. These pots just let you do it faster. You can hit one person with a pot, then one with a spell, so on and so forth.

Any questions?

~Kire

[Kire]

I remember back when you got blinded/cursed/poisoned you where screwed if you did not come prepared for the quest. Let’s just make this game even more WoW friendly.

again really don't care still going to play the way I play...

Heh isnt the main idea of DnD as a whole that you're party mates are supposed to help you? Well these funnel pots let them do that. It's alot faster then staying in place, waiting for a party mate to trade you with a pot, make sure they're in range, take the pot, open your inventory, and drink the pot, with teh same result.

~Kire

[Arnya]

Remove fear pots have always worked while you are feared....

[Talcyndl]

Remove fear pots have always worked while you are feared....

And is there any indication they will stop working with the addition of a funnel?

Not the way I read the Weekly notes.

[Angelus_dead]

And is there any indication they will stop working with the addition of a funnel?

Not the way I read the Weekly notes.

As written, the notes don't say that. But based on previous changes to Lesser Restore potions, it is reasonable to guess that the way they "add a funnel" is redefining those potions to use the clicky code instead of the potion code.

[Angelus_dead]

Couple things:
You can use pots (even the clicky ones) when raged. in any form. They fixed that.

Since it's not fixed on the live servers, and it's not mentioned as being fixed in the WDA, why do you say they fixed it?

Maybe you are getting confused by the difference between Barbarian Rage and other possible forms of rage. Madstone Rage does not currently obstruct your use of a Remove Blind potion, but in the future it might.

[Invalid_86]

People actually use water breathing potions?

[maddmatt70]

Couple things:

Uhm... How does this make more stress on cleric? If you PuG alot as a cleric then yeah, your going to run into groups that dont carry all the pots, but atleast now you won't have to waste SP on getting rid of stupid debuffs. You can do them with some-what in-expensive pots. If there was a condition that could not be protected against you as a cleric are going to have to heal it away anyway. These pots just let you do it faster. You can hit one person with a pot, then one with a spell, so on and so forth.

~Kire

You can't drink pots when madstone raged which for barbarians and fighters means the lesser restore fix didn't really help things and they are enlarging that existing pool of conditions which will require ever more cleric dependency. The cleric has to take account of the conditions other players have and remove these conditions during a battle- this doesn't promote mana effiiciency or general time efficiency for the situations where heal will fix the damage, but then there are the conditions which heal doesn't fix the condition the best example is remove curse. Picture this scenario the players are in part 2 with the red named devil who curses and makes it so they can't be healed when cursed - they want to have more hit points and dps so they would like to have madstone boots on, but if they do then they can't remove curse during the fight and the cleric has to take care of that condition or they die. Clerics always try to remove curse, but currently a player can drink a pot before a cleric even removes that curse which makes it so the players are less reliant on the cleric. Cleric reliance is not a good thing in my opinion because it leads to less diversity in play styles, character building, etc.

[Shade]

You can use pots (even the clicky ones) when raged. in any form. They fixed that.

Yea no, they didn't. Not sure why I read the rest of your post since clearing you never tested this much but rather just trying to disagree for the sake of trolling, but ok.
While using the standard barbarian raged - yes there usuable - thats great, but wasn't a big deal because we already have the dismiss rage ability.
While madstone raged - no you cannot use clicky potions - and thats what my example said and an important one because you cannot dismiss madstone rage or even remove it by using a shrine. I believe the same applies to tensors transmformation - but will admit i have not tested that one (just a guess based on the fact tensors gives the same error message as madstone rage)

The animation issues I think are clear to players who have actaully use lesser restore potions often, but I will clarify it anyways:
The animation length is MUCH longer for clicky then drinking - about double the length, and as such is interupted much more often by things like being tripped/grabbing a ledge, etc. Regular potions can be interupted yes - but the chances are far lower of it happening.

[QuantumFX]

Remove fear pots have always worked while you are feared....

But not mummy dispared.

[Angelus_dead]

But not mummy dispared.

By adherence to the D&D rules, as well as the principles of game balance, characters shouldn't be able to drink potions when either Feared or Despaired, but teammates should be able to feed them potions in both those cases.

By the D&D rules, the only potions usable while feared are potions that produce a travel effect. (As a stretch, that could include Haste)

[Kire]

You can't drink pots when madstone raged which for barbarians and fighters means the lesser restore fix didn't really help things and they are enlarging that existing pool of conditions which will require ever more cleric dependency. The cleric has to take account of the conditions other players have and remove these conditions during a battle- this doesn't promote mana effiiciency or general time efficiency for the situations where heal will fix the damage, but then there are the conditions which heal doesn't fix the condition the best example is remove curse. Picture this scenario the players are in part 2 with the red named devil who curses and makes it so they can't be healed when cursed - they want to have more hit points and dps so they would like to have madstone boots on, but if they do then they can't remove curse during the fight and the cleric has to take care of that condition or they die. Clerics always try to remove curse, but currently a player can drink a pot before a cleric even removes that curse which makes it so the players are less reliant on the cleric. Cleric reliance is not a good thing in my opinion because it leads to less diversity in play styles, character building, etc.

For Restoration: Erm.. You can use the pots on the fighters and barbs instead of mana...

Curse Removal: If they choose that they need madstone rage then DO NOT feel bad when they die because they cannot use a pot. Some players need to realise when certain buffs are appropriate and when you need to be more defensive. If they do not recognize these situations then they become ghosts. They'll learn.

~Kire

EDIT: also with being able to cast pots on party mates its making the spell available to other classes making it easier for the cleric because he/she is not the only with access to curing the afflicted person. SO the cleric can yell " hey <insert random class here> will you throw a <insert random infliction pot here> on the barbarian? he has madstone going.

[Strykersz]

Remove fear pots have always worked while you are feared....

They won't after mod 7.

[Kire]

Since it's not fixed on the live servers, and it's not mentioned as being fixed in the WDA, why do you say they fixed it?

Maybe you are getting confused by the difference between Barbarian Rage and other possible forms of rage. Madstone Rage does not currently obstruct your use of a Remove Blind potion, but in the future it might.

Ah i forgot that madstone rage is a different type in the coding.

Well as i said above, These tanks need to learn when and when not to use certain clickies, items, and skills. Do i occasionally use madstone when i shouldn't? yes. Do i sometimes where my madstone boots in battle when i know i may need to cast a heal scroll or drink a pot? Yes. But these are normally by accident and if people continue to not realize when certain things are appropriate they will continue to die and i will feel none the worse about it, even if im playing a cleric.

~Kire

[Kire]

They won't after mod 7.

It says this in the release notes?

~Kire

[Kire]

Yea no, they didn't. Not sure why I read the rest of your post since clearing you never tested this much but rather just trying to disagree for the sake of trolling, but ok.
While using the standard barbarian raged - yes there usuable - thats great, but wasn't a big deal because we already have the dismiss rage ability.
While madstone raged - no you cannot use clicky potions - and thats what my example said and an important one because you cannot dismiss madstone rage or even remove it by using a shrine. I believe the same applies to tensors transmformation - but will admit i have not tested that one (just a guess based on the fact tensors gives the same error message as madstone rage)

The animation issues I think are clear to players who have actaully use lesser restore potions often, but I will clarify it anyways:
The animation length is MUCH longer for clicky then drinking - about double the length, and as such is interupted much more often by things like being tripped/grabbing a ledge, etc. Regular potions can be interupted yes - but the chances are far lower of it happening.

I am not trolling. But it's not right to throw up a bunch of hypothetical situations that can easily be avoided by teamwork and slowing down.

I was incorrect on using pots in madstone rage. I admit it. Sorry. But still, the tank should: A) Ask whether he would be alright to use madstone (maybe delving into what the mobs cast and whether the cleric will be ready to combat the debuffs with cures). B) Know what is coming and instead of depending on someone, be able to judge what would be more effective.

As far as "Not Testing" I never disagreed that you cannot do the things you said in your post.

You cannot drink a pot while on ladder if you happen to become blinded. Simply slow down, get off the ladder and drink your pot. Im not sure how adding a funnel to a pot changes this. Also why were you runnign around when you were blind? lol.

While tripped you cant drink pots now. While being tripped you cannot use clickies. So how does a pot becoming a clicky change this? In your example you were cursed. Ok well theres no point in continuing to try to use a pot when something is obviously hitting you. I know you have lower to hit but you're more likely to going to be able to kill teh dog/wolf/warg/hob/mob and drink the pot faster then hoping to save on a trip and not get interupted by getting hit. Common Sense.

Multiple Debuff: Again it sucks, but slowing down, pre-planning and thinking a little will easily get you through this. At low lvls i always drink a Posion Immun pot before every quest. it lasts 8 mins i think. Thats a good bit. Ask for one at the beggining of a quest or carry pots and chug one every 8 mins. You prolly chug haste pots every 30 sec, so this shouldnt be hard to remember. Now for getting rid of disease and curse at the same time: You can either wear a disease immun item (pre-planning) or figure which one is going to hurt you sooner. If you are not fighting then the disease is obviously going to hurt sooner, because curse is perm. Disease has a 1 min timer and if you pay attention to your buff list you should take it out pretty early all you need is the pots for it (Planning). Curse goes last ccuz its not changing, its not going to hurt more hten it already is. If you're in the middle of a fight you can either A) Fight through the pain, trying to get a disease removal off every 6 sec, B) run away and jump to get a curse removal off then try to kill the monsters before your disease hits.

Off course the offset to the multiple debuff is good saves.




~Kire