Paladin Divine Sacrifice I

[Turial]

-10 hp for 5d6 and +1 crit multiplier every 8 seconds vs 2d6 damage each swing and - 1d6...which is better and which is worse?

I think its 95ish (likely wrong) 1 handed attacks per min = 95/60 = 1.5 attacks per second or 12 attacks per 8 seconds.

DS = -10 hp for 17.5 damage

Vicious = at 3 attacks you have delt on average 21 damage and taken 10.5 damage

Critical DS hit = -10 hp for 35 on 2x, 52.5 on 3x, 70 on 4x, and 87.5 on 5x... assuming the good damage is multiplied by the critical (pallys can hope).

Vicious = 5 attacks = 35 damage - 17.5, 8 attacks = 56 damage - 28, 10 attacks = 70 damage - 35

Over 12 attacks vicious nets you 84 damage delt to the mob and -42 hp to you.

Note: This is just a comparison of some numbers, doesnt take into account runs where you take more damage then the mob does and always assumes that you are hitting with both the DS and Vicious weapon. Though missing with a vicious weapon doesnt hurt you.

[Redcoil]

If Smite were changed entirely, it could work together... make DS the clicky version, and make smite an auto-skill that has that 1% chance of landing on any given crit. And of course, its mechanics would work out the same, could be a nice way to get pallies a LOT of damage in a crit, but how rare it procs would have to be stressed...

[elraido]

If Smite were changed entirely, it could work together... make DS the clicky version, and make smite an auto-skill that has that 1% chance of landing on any given crit. And of course, its mechanics would work out the same, could be a nice way to get pallies a LOT of damage in a crit, but how rare it procs would have to be stressed...

It would have to be a lot more than 1% of the time. Maybe more like 10% of the time would work....but then all you would need to do is get a good crit modded weapon (rapier, scimi) and go to town smiting all over the place. It would have to been on a natural roll of like 17-20 confirmed crit to make things even. If you go with a natural 20 confired crit, then you are just saying might as well vorpal the guy.

[Redcoil]

Due to how much damage it can do (I smite mid 200 to mid 300s) It would need to be a VERY low percent... however maybe an ench line to add it up a bit? Just an idea anyway to get these two working together :-)

[Aesop]

ok so the net reward over time is limited (if not non existant)... how about one of the following


tier 1:add 5d6 Holy damage to next smite evil and increased the critical mulitplier by 1 at a cost of 5hp

or

tier 1: all strikes for the next 15 sec do an additional 5d6 Holy damage and increase the crit multiplier by 1. Cooldown 1 min cost 10hp

or

tier 1: toggle: all smite evils do an additional 5d6 Holy Damage and Increase the crit multiplier by 1. cost each smite so affected costs 5hp

I think the cost of 1 AP may be a little low for any of these but someone else can do the math.

I would also like Smite evil to be changed a touch. I personally would like it to be brought back closer to pnp in one aspect and further away in another. Damage wise scale it back to Paladin level extra damage (with enhancments to increase this by 5 in 4tiers 20 max bonus by level 18) but change it from a use per day to a cooldown of 15-20 sec unlimited use.


I don't know what yu guys may think about this but hey its what I'd like to see I think

Aesop

[Lufia]

ok so the net reward over time is limited (if not non existant)... how about one of the following


tier 1:add 5d6 Holy damage to next smite evil and increased the critical mulitplier by 1 at a cost of 5hp

or

tier 1: all strikes for the next 15 sec do an additional 5d6 Holy damage and increase the crit multiplier by 1. Cooldown 1 min cost 10hp

or

tier 1: toggle: all smite evils do an additional 5d6 Holy Damage and Increase the crit multiplier by 1. cost each smite so affected costs 5hp

I think the cost of 1 AP may be a little low for any of these but someone else can do the math.

I would also like Smite evil to be changed a touch. I personally would like it to be brought back closer to pnp in one aspect and further away in another. Damage wise scale it back to Paladin level extra damage (with enhancments to increase this by 5 in 4tiers 20 max bonus by level 18) but change it from a use per day to a cooldown of 15-20 sec unlimited use.


I don't know what yu guys may think about this but hey its what I'd like to see I think

Aesop

I like your ideas on smites being somewhat of a timed stance like Way of the assasin, One would cringe though on a GTWF smiting paladin, I know I would

Maybe Pure holy damage and a crit multiplier can be one thing, But how about variations of a smite, I know it may not be close to PnP but this is an online MMORPG and some changes and extra spices may be in order.

Perhaps....

*Smite on a successful Critital hit can have a possibility of Banishing an evil outsider?
*Smite on a Critical hit will have an chance/Or automatic effect as of stunning blow? *I bet pallys would love this lol*
*Smite that does charisma/Dexterity damage and on a crit do a little extra of that stat damage?

It dosent have to be completely Damage.

Just suggestions, plz dont flame me :P

[paintedman]

...or does this enhancement feel like the Pally ability from a Blizzard game?

-paintedman

[SteeleTrueheart]

tier 1: toggle: all smite evils do an additional 5d6 Holy Damage and Increase the crit multiplier by 1. cost each smite so affected costs 5hp

I actually quite like this one (even though it reduces the amount of times per day you can use it) it makes Extra Smite enhancements more worthwile and the reduced HP cost is more appropriate for the limited amount of use.

Going to wait till DSII and III etc come out before I call this enhancement worthless though.

[Aesop]

I actually quite like this one (even though it reduces the amount of times per day you can use it) it makes Extra Smite enhancements more worthwile and the reduced HP cost is more appropriate for the limited amount of use.

Going to wait till DSII and III etc come out before I call this enhancement worthless though.

well that was why I wanted the other change to Smite Evil... slightly reduced damage for unlimited uses... cause I always hate use per day abilities. One reason I don't often play a Pally in DnD.I'm thinkin a Full specced Paladin at level 20 could smite evil creatures for +40 damage and with DSIII 40+10d6 with a +1 Crit Multiplier and Range at a cost of 5hp per smite... of course with a Pick wielder that becomes +200+10d6 on a successful crit before weapon and strength...

DS1 would be 5d6 +1Crit Multiplier
DS2 at 10 the level would be 8d6 +1Crit Multiplier
and
DS3 would be 10d6 +1Crit Multiplier and +1 Crit Range

at least that's what I was thinkin

Aesop

[Jondallar]

So for 1 action point 10 hp and 1 sp my smite evil's also gain 5d6 good damage and +1 crit multiplier when they land. This is a no brainer of course I am going to take it... although I can count on 1 hand the number of critting smites I have landed in the last month... Im just unlucky and use Heavy picks and khopesh so they dont crit easily. I have to say that a human vers damage/rogue damage boost, DF'd, raged, bard songed, GH'd, hasted, Recitationed/Prayered, Power attacked, critical smite evil with a deathnip will be insane... I have already done 372 damage (I get backstab damage too on my paladin's) in this scenario...

[elraido]

And am I the only that seems to roll a 1 literally like 70% of the time I try to smite?

[Dexxaan]

Yep.

[Redcoil]

My 1's on smite are 9/10.

[Ralmeth]

And am I the only that seems to roll a 1 literally like 70% of the time I try to smite?

Or the monster moves away from you just when you go to smite I would love to see smite changed such that you get the bonus to hit as it is currently and this remains with you until you finally do hit. When you hit, you then get your extra smite damage. That way when you roll a 1 or the mob moves away you haven't wasted your smite. Either this or a short timer where you smite on every hit, something like 5 seconds would probably work nicely.

[artvan_delet]

So for 1 action point 10 hp and 1 sp my smite evil's also gain 5d6 good damage and +1 crit multiplier when they land. This is a no brainer of course I am going to take it... although I can count on 1 hand the number of critting smites I have landed in the last month... Im just unlucky and use Heavy picks and khopesh so they dont crit easily. I have to say that a human vers damage/rogue damage boost, DF'd, raged, bard songed, GH'd, hasted, Recitationed/Prayered, Power attacked, critical smite evil with a deathnip will be insane... I have already done 372 damage (I get backstab damage too on my paladin's) in this scenario...

I don't see how sacrifice is worth it. If you need to set up a smite by casting this spell, aren't you losing at least one attack? If so, the loss in damage for that lost attack doesn't make up for the damage on your next smite. That's assuming you can set up a smite and your mob doesnt move when you swing so that it's all just wasted. Talk about being even more angered with smite. Isn't it also possible that you just hit sacrifice and the attack goes off (it isn't linked to smite)? If it's not linked, then it's more like vicious, and not that good. The +1 crit modifier is ok. Here's hoping that sacrifice 2, 3 are better.

[Hvymetal]

And am I the only that seems to roll a 1 literally like 70% of the time I try to smite?

No, and my Pally seems to roll a lot of 1's when I face a Beholder, and for some reason my Rogue cannot seem to roll above a 5 when I HAVE to get that trap disabled

[Aesop]

No, and my Pally seems to roll a lot of 1's when I face a Beholder, and for some reason my Rogue cannot seem to roll above a 5 when I HAVE to get that trap disabled

My rogue doesn't need to

Aesop

[Jondallar]

I don't see how sacrifice is worth it. If you need to set up a smite by casting this spell, aren't you losing at least one attack? If so, the loss in damage for that lost attack doesn't make up for the damage on your next smite. That's assuming you can set up a smite and your mob doesnt move when you swing so that it's all just wasted. Talk about being even more angered with smite. Isn't it also possible that you just hit sacrifice and the attack goes off (it isn't linked to smite)? If it's not linked, then it's more like vicious, and not that good. The +1 crit modifier is ok. Here's hoping that sacrifice 2, 3 are better.

I think its an action similar to DV/DH vs Turn undeads for clerics... so the way i am reading this enhancement is that anytime I plan on using my Smite Evil Clicky, i will instead use my Divine Sacrifice Clicky... thus its the same interruption as using a smite evil with all the benefits of smite evil (i.e. cha modifier to to hit damage ect).

I agree that smite evil still needs to be more targeted so mobs dont dodge/ move out of the way. What would be really nice if smite could somehow be coded to never have a critical failure on a 1 roll.. as I like so many others see what seems to be a disproportionate amount of critical misses or moving mobs when I use my smite evil clicky... In PnP you know if the mob is going to be close enough to hit with your smite evil (in the next square ect) it would go a long way if the devs could find a way to more closely mimic this.

[gpk]

Honestly guys, I think the devs have their hats on too tight with the choices they've made over the last year (soon) and the long awaited holy grail for paladins, the ones all the forum fanbois kept telling us to "stop whining and wait for", mod7 seems to be another kick in the pants for paladins.

I think focusing on fancy smites and crappy implementations of limited use pnp spells is just plain silly, the real useful pnp compliant and and far from overpowering spells seem to be overlooked yet again.

I'm a little confused why people are getting sidetracked by the Smites and Divine Sacrifices, I would have expected the paladin player base to be outraged or at the very least disappointed with what has been announced thus far.

Our last hope is that either they've saved the best for last or that the paladins players mobilize and let their protests and please be heard.

Sometimes I wonder if some designers play their own games...

[elraido]

Honestly guys, I think the devs have their hats on too tight with the choices they've made over the last year (soon) and the long awaited holy grail for paladins, the ones all the forum fanbois kept telling us to "stop whining and wait for", mod7 seems to be another kick in the pants for paladins.

I think focusing on fancy smites and crappy implementations of limited use pnp spells is just plain silly, the real useful pnp compliant and and far from overpowering spells seem to be overlooked yet again.

I'm a little confused why people are getting sidetracked by the Smites and Divine Sacrifices, I would have expected the paladin player base to be outraged or at the very least disappointed with what has been announced thus far.

Our last hope is that either they've saved the best for last or that the paladins players mobilize and let their protests and please be heard.

Sometimes I wonder if some designers play their own games...

actually it seems like a bunch of them do play this game....and I think they all play dwarven barbarians by how over powered they are.

One things I never thought about was using smite evil with a bow. Can you use it that way?