Weekly Developer Activities: 3/24/08

[Eladrin]

Honestly I wonder why barbarians were given +2 crit range rather then +2 critical multiplier. Seems like a barbarian would have hit for devistating damage where a normal fighter would only do critical damage rather then having the ability to hit precise locations to deliver that damage more often.

At the time that Critical Rage was implemented, we didn't have that tech. I do agree with you, however, that it would make quite a bit more sense as an increase to critical damage multiplier when raging.

[sigtrent]

At the time that Critical Rage was implemented, we didn't have that tech. I do agree with you, however, that it would make quite a bit more sense as an increase to critical damage multiplier when raging.

Although rules wise it would lead to more barbarians using rapiers and scimitars than axes and picks.

[DrAwkward]

Although rules wise it would lead to more barbarians using rapiers and scimitars than axes and picks.

Falchions FTW

[Vhlad]

Although rules wise it would lead to more barbarians using rapiers and scimitars than axes and picks.

Many barbs are already using rapiers for optimal wounding of puncturing with their increased crit range.

(although yeah, falchion and SoS would be very popular if it was higher crit mult instead of crit range). People made barbs specifically to take advantage of the crit range enhancement though, so it's tough to change without upsetting players.

I'm still waiting for some kind of enhancement for fighters. Either weapon master related or otherwise. The barbs crit rage really blew us out of the water.

[Strahd-BR]

For stupid damge... Sword of Shadows.

[Boulderun]

For stupid damge... Sword of Shadows.

No kidding. 15-20/x5

Deathnip? 17-20/x6. 48 dmg from the seeker alone. 5d6 maiming.

Let's not even get started with green steel khopeshes.

[Darth_Sizzle]

...I'm still waiting for some kind of enhancement for fighters. Either weapon master related or otherwise. The barbs crit rage really blew us out of the water.

Yes, this is very much needed. As it stands, fighters have average DPS and poor saves. The primary advantage to being a fighter used to be AC, however, AC at higher levels is essentially useless. Fighters need specialty enhancements just like Rogues, Bards, and Rangers currently get (in fact all classes should have access to some kind of specialty enhancements).

I would actually like to see the new Paladin enhancement be part of (as in throw in some extra stuff) a new specialty enhancement. This would of course require it to be min lvl 6 like the others, and have some pre-req's.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

At the time that Critical Rage was implemented, we didn't have that tech. I do agree with you, however, that it would make quite a bit more sense as an increase to critical damage multiplier when raging.

Does that mean you agree in spirit or that you agree and something is in the works?

[kruggar]

ok.. give fighter the improved critical range and barbarian de improved ritical multiplier then

that will put them all in same page, but will leave all other melle classes behind, paladins, rangers and rogues (yes rogues are are melle oriented)

[Shaamis]

An enhancement that increased the threat range of a weapon denotes more skill than brute force (Ftrs)

An enhancement that increased the damage multiplier of a weapon denotes more brute force than skill (Barb)

But where do paladins fit into this equation?

[Angelus_dead]

Although rules wise it would lead to more barbarians using rapiers and scimitars than axes and picks.

That's why my suggestion was to give them a +1 crit mult on rolls of 20, followed by rolls of 19 for a step II enhancement. That method would have no bias towards any kind of weapon.

A rapier would become 1d6 15-18/x2,19-20/x3, and a pick would be 1d6 19-20/x5. In either case, you have gained 19-20/+x1 over your previous damage.

[Turial]

No kidding. 15-20/x5

Deathnip? 17-20/x6. 48 dmg from the seeker alone. 5d6 maiming.

Let's not even get started with green steel khopeshes.

Thats what comes from toying with the basic stats of weapons.

SOS has the best aspects of all 3 slashing two-handers...there is almost nothing that turbine could do that won't synergize with it and make it a optimal weapon which is why its a raid item.

Deathnip's expanded crit range also falls into this. In either case, critical rage multiplier or range increase, the weapon is an ideal killer of mobs. More diffucult to obtain because you have to farm for tome pages to get them. I would bet turbine can easily count the number of people with 1 let alone 2 of these items.

Also the critical multiplier bonus (if it was ever done) would idealy be tied to a specific type of weapon, such as two-handers, like how most of the other enhancments (dwarf excluded) are tied to a specific small set of weapons.

[Turial]

An enhancement that increased the threat range of a weapon denotes more skill than brute force (Ftrs)

An enhancement that increased the damage multiplier of a weapon denotes more brute force than skill (Barb)

But where do paladins fit into this equation?

% chance to smite on any hit.

Higher level smite that works to banish outsiders, no HD cap.

Higher level smite that works to disrupt undead, higher save.

[Vhlad]

ok.. give fighter the improved critical range and barbarian de improved ritical multiplier then

that will put them all in same page, but will leave all other melle classes behind, paladins, rangers and rogues (yes rogues are are melle oriented)

The barbarian critical rage enhancement in DDO has no basis that I know of from 3.5 or 4.0. It has no feat requirements, no skill reqs, and no other enhancement reqs. You just have to be a high lvl barb. Whereas stuff like tempest or the other special enhancements (i.e. the rogue "way of" enhancement lines), all have a bunch of requirements, and bear some *association* with prestige classes from the ruleset.

Anyway, Paladins are getting some specialty enhancements next mod. I hope eventually fighters will see something.

PS.
A critical multiplier increase of 2 is huge. You can use the DDO melee damage tool to compare the difference in DPS for example a green steel khopesh that is 17/x5 vs one that is 15/x3 if you don't want to calculate it yourself (17/x4 is equivalent to 15/x3, but 17/x5 is a big step up).

An enhancement that increased the threat range of a weapon denotes more skill than brute force (Ftrs)

An enhancement that increased the damage multiplier of a weapon denotes more brute force than skill (Barb)

Naw, an increase to base damage denotes more brute force. Crit multiplier and crit range increases are skill/feat/training based. i.e. the weapon master from pnp gets both.

[DareDelvis]

ok.. give fighter the improved critical range and barbarian de improved ritical multiplier then

that will put them all in same page, but will leave all other melle classes behind, paladins, rangers and rogues (yes rogues are are melle oriented)

That is something I thought fits the "role play" of the two classes for a long time. A skilled fighter could crit more often, but a raging barb would hit for more damage.

[binnsr]

That is something I thought fits the "role play" of the two classes for a long time. A skilled fighter could crit more often, but a raging barb would hit for more damage.

This sort of discussion is why I've always thought that enhancements should be ability-based, rather than class-based .. that and my cleric not getting her fat meta-magic cost-reduction enhancements (but that's another gripe for another time )

[gpk]

At the time that Critical Rage was implemented, we didn't have that tech. I do agree with you, however, that it would make quite a bit more sense as an increase to critical damage multiplier when raging.

Vhlad is correct, +2 critical multiplier is WAY more powerful than a +2 critical range for a barbarian.

Any time you mess with critical related stuff for a very strong baseline class like a bbn, the benefits are much greater and a multiplier increase for a bbn is MUCH stronger than a range increase for a bbn DPS-wise (not counting special crit effect weapons like smiters etc.)

We would have been in a much worse situation now if the Crit Rage multiplier was increased rather than the range.

Edit: Think SoS

[oronisi]

ok.. give fighter the improved critical range and barbarian de improved ritical multiplier then

that will put them all in same page, but will leave all other melle classes behind, paladins, rangers and rogues (yes rogues are are melle oriented)

Yes, lets forget that if ANY class should get an improved critical attack in any way, it should be the rogue.

Yes, lets spread the overpoweredness to 1 other class only, everyone knows if you want to do melee damage you roll a barbarian or fighter only. All other classes are for support.

[Aesop]

How about make Fighter's Ciritical Accuracy Enhancement (the one that is for confirming Crit Hits) a Seeker effect that stacks with item Seeker effects.

While you're at it change Mobility to a +2 Passive Dodge bonus while moving and a +4 while Tumbling (let Fighters and Rogues get a Mobility Enhancement to Enhance that up to a max of +3 Moving and +6Tumbling

Implement the Feat Telling Blow out of the Player's Handbook II (Apply Sneak Attack Damage on confirmed Critical Hits)

change Smite Evil from a use per rest to a cooldown effect (15-20 sec). That way even if the critter jumps clear at least they didn't waste something more than a little time.

Have Divine Sacrifice last for 6-10sec interval with a 20 sec cooldown.

change Wrack Construct to a % chance to inflict Sneak Attack damage on flanked or flatfooted constructs (25,50,75 and 100% in tiers)

implement a similar effect for undead called Call of the Grave or something

Implement Divine Might as a 20sec ability

Implement Righteous Might (the spell)

Implement Mass Resist Energy (the spell)



ah... yeah

Aesop

[maddmatt70]

Any word on the second tier of prestige classes. e.g tempest II, spellsinger II, etc. Will they be implemented for mod 7?