"Greater" Disruption

[Cinwulf]

and you think creating a brand new effect called "Greater Disruption" and making it statistically inferior to "Disruption" is a balancer?

It's fine to make an effect that's less than disruption and consider it "balancing". But if you're going to make it weaker, don't go and call it Greater. As it currently stands, it appears that someone at turbine doesn't have a basic handle on how saves and DCs work (or at least missed this one).

/nod, that is the topic of the thread as I understand it from the OP.

[MysticTheurge]

Ok then, so let's evaluate it compared to the other "extra effects." Not compared to regular disruption effect.

Andah already did that, on page 1.

Say for instance I go Fire-Fire-Fire instead, I'll have comparable DPS, but I will be able to utilize that DPS against any enemy.

[Talcyndl]

Andah already did that, on page 1.

Well, given the prevalence of resistance and immunity to fire, I don't think a fire line weapon would be as usable as a good/holy weapon.

[Talcyndl]

i would have to assume, by rereading the OP, that this is EXACTLY what the OP had in mind.

the OP had aimed to make a weapon that was better at disrupting than her Disrupton weapon.
the OP assumed an effect titled "Greater Disruption" would do just that.
the OP was mistaken.
the OP quickly realized that the weapon created was, infact, inferior to her normal Disruption weapon for her purposes.

as a matter of fact, if Greater Disruption WAS better than Disruption, i'd be willing to bet that very few would bother putting MDP-holy damage effects on them. Who cares about the damage done by an insta-kill weapon?

Unless her purposes were something other than killing undead (and in fact, most other enemies in the game) that is not the case. The OP's weapon is far superior at killing undead (especially the high save ones) compared to any disruptor available in the game. With the DPS and the (low percentage) auto kill combo, the Tier Three weapon is going to be superior.

[Laith]

Unless her purposes were something other than killing undead

did you read anything but the last 3 words of the OP? Her purposes for crafting the item were crystal clear.

So much to my (short-lived) glee I finally got my green steel weapon up to tier three this evening. I went Positive+Positive+Positive hoping that my weapon would become a disruptor at the end as was said in the spreadsheet on crafting.

When I hear something called 'Greater' I usually assume it's better than the regular version. In the case of Greater Disruption, this is a false statement.

nite folks.

[MysticTheurge]

Well, given the prevalence of resistance and immunity to fire, I don't think a fire line weapon would be as usable as a good/holy weapon.

We're not talking the whole weapon here, we're talking the third tier bonus. (Or at least that was what you suggested we do.)

Compare Greater Disruption vs. Incineration. Even including the prevalence of resistance and immunity to fire, Incineration will affect more enemies.

Not to mention that you can also do Water/Water/Water to get cold damage and crushing wave (which affects everything).

Or any of the the para or quasi elements.

Greater Disruption is one of the least powerful third tier bonus effects, plain and simple.

On top of the fact that it's less powerful that normal Disruption.

[Boulderun]

Incineration is probably a better killer of mummies and frostmarrow skellingtons, too.

[Angelus_dead]

Greater Disruption is one of the least powerful third tier bonus effects, plain and simple.

It's fine for it to be less powerful than the others, since you get it by going Holy+Good Burst+Good Blast, which is more powerful than the other possible weapon combos.

But the present design of Greater Disruption is not a good one.

[DesertBlue]

Also, folks. The Greater Disruption is not garunteed 1-3% of the time. It procs 1-3%. 5% of the time it procs, the opponent will roll a 20 and save. Also the DC is 34, meaning the opponent needs a will save of 15 or higher for the chance of it saving to go up. Yes this is a high DC, but it is not garunteed.

I have one of these and have had undead in the orchard save against it. I ran right out there as soon as I made mine and realized what I'd made. I was let down as well. I still use this weapon and will continue to use it until I can deconstruct it or can make a second MinneralII sword. At which point I will use dual MinIIs or disruptors. I will not be using my greater disruption sword 3 months from today as it stands.

[BlueLightBandit]

Taking everything on the weapon that isn't "Greater Disruption" is like trying to put a door in a wall without a hole... you're missing a good part of the point of the door.

Greater Disruption by itself is not available without anything else, so it cannot be compared to "regular" disruption accurately.

Making the argument "If I had a +1 heavy mace of disruption and a +1 heavy mace of greater disruption..." is moot because a +1 heavy mace of greater disruption simply doesn't exist.

Is it a bad description? Probably... then again, there are a hundred other things in DDO that are poorly described as well... why would anyone expect differently?

Was the description in the OP's spreadsheet bad? Yes, definitely... then again, we're still just discovering many things about crafting... so making assumptions about weapon abilities at this point in the game is silly.

The only real question is whether or not it's worth putting on an item... and that's TOTALLY up to the person crafting it, regardless of what the forum "experts" say about it.

[Talcyndl]

did you read anything but the last 3 words of the OP? Her purposes for crafting the item were crystal clear.



nite folks.

Too bad the crafted weapons aren't tradeable. I've got a ton of disruptors I'd be happy to trade for the OP's inferior weapon.

Disruptors are good because they kill undead. The OP's third tier upgraded weapon is better at killing undead (and a ton of other stuff) than any disruptor in the game.

Period. And goodnight.

[Talcyndl]

Also, folks. The Greater Disruption is not garunteed 1-3% of the time. It procs 1-3%. 5% of the time it procs, the opponent will roll a 20 and save. Also the DC is 34, meaning the opponent needs a will save of 15 or higher for the chance of it saving to go up. Yes this is a high DC, but it is not garunteed.

Since you have one, I'll ask...

Have you actually tested it to determine this (now widely accepted) 1-3% figure?

Thanks.

[Riggs]

No.

Sorry, I misread your post then. I thought the sarcasm was being aimed at the wrong side of the argument.

[DesertBlue]

Since you have one, I'll ask...

Have you actually tested it to determine this (now widely accepted) 1-3% figure?

Thanks.

No I have not. The "widely accepted number" seemed to fit my experience, but I would definitely not garuntee it as accurate. For me to test it and feel good about my results I'd want at least a thousand hits. I love loot way too much to dedicate that sort of time and energy. The whole time I was testing Id be thinking about the decline in my CPH.

What is real, is 2 people in this thread have made this weapon and both were dissapointed with the results.

Talcyndl, you seem to be championing this crafting line. Have you personally made one for one of your characters?

Don't get me wrong it is not a bad weapon, but had I known then what I know now I would have made something different to begin with. "Period. And goodnight."

[Talcyndl]

Talcyndl, you seem to be championing this crafting line. Have you personally made one for one of your characters?

Don't get me wrong it is not a bad weapon, but had I known then what I know now I would have made something different to begin with. "Period. And goodnight."

Not particularly "championing" it. Just think the criticism is overblown - as it often is when a particular item isn't as uber as imaginable.

The only item I've crafted is a set of +200sp and +6 Wis (etc.) goggles for my cleric.

I'm thinking about the Acid line on a shortsword for my rogue. For a rogue I think the earth elemental is a nice counterpart since (I assume) you get sneak attack on grabbed enemies.

[GlassCannon]

Not particularly "championing" it. Just think the criticism is overblown - as it often is when a particular item isn't as uber as imaginable.

So you wouldn't be irritated with spending 4 months farming items in a raid you would rather not do, the result of which being a Transmuting Masterwork Dagger of The Holy Flame(-1 to hit, Good damage)?

Honestly, we have better items to put on.

We also have better things to waste our time on.


As stated earlier, Greater Disruption needs to be an autodisrupt 100% of the time when a person gets hit, or a DC35+ Disruption effect on a weapon(or comparable, like Disrupt(no save) on a Critical Hit).

Nothing less will suffice.

[Alavatar]

Not particularly "championing" it. Just think the criticism is overblown - as it often is when a particular item isn't as uber as imaginable.

The only item I've crafted is a set of +200sp and +6 Wis (etc.) goggles for my cleric.

I'm thinking about the Acid line on a shortsword for my rogue. For a rogue I think the earth elemental is a nice counterpart since (I assume) you get sneak attack on grabbed enemies.

You might want to research Radiance II effect since that causes blindness (no save) on critical hits that lasts about 15 seconds and allows sneak attack, while Earth Grab is a % proc.

Also, seriously, an effect that is labeled "Greater" should be better then original. If you got a weapon that gives +9 CHA that is a "Greater Disruption" weapon it certainly won't act better then a regular Disruption effect. Therefore, as an undead destroying weapon for a Paladin it is not better then a regular Disruptor, hence not "Greater".

[Talcyndl]

Nothing less will suffice.

Prepare to be disappointed. There's no way such an item will be introduced into the game.

:shrug:

[Talcyndl]

You might want to research Radiance II effect since that causes blindness (no save) on critical hits that lasts about 15 seconds and allows sneak attack, while Earth Grab is a % proc.

Thanks.

I've been holding off making stuff until all the effects are fully understood. And I thank the OP for being on the bleeding edge.

[DesertBlue]

Areed I'd research radiance II for a rogue that weapon is awesome for backstab