TWF and Cleave

[Emili]

Be thankful you dont play a human male with cleave. Even with sword and board, you cleave much slower than everyone else.

Fix this turbine.

Female human melee > Male human melee (silly, isnt it?)

Because us women are graceful

Correct

1 weapon no sheild slow
1 weapon shield super fast
2 weapons slow and strikes only with main hand.
1 th weapon slow

It's broken I remember why I dumped the feat now... although its really fun when you vorpal a room lol.

I bug reported that way back in beta, maybe just after release...

I was just looking at it tonight though, and asking a friend to tell me what he thought... funny thing was he said from his perspective watching me spin cleave, greater cleave and whirlwind, the sword-n-board looked slower then the non-shield or so he claims... while to me the SnB was clearly a lot faster then non-shield, twf or 2hf, So now I'm not quite sure if the perspective matters? Why would there be a difference between his client and mine - as far as I can tell it goes out to the server a few milli-seconds latter.

The largest question is execution within the combat log... registered hit and pickup of the following swings. from what I can see is I can start a cleave even before my whirlwind or greater cleave animation finished... and it registers hits from the second before the animation is into it. Which brings me to the question of what we see vs what really happens?

[Angelus_dead]

Seeing as the correct implementation would likely be difficult to code, the creative implementation they've used will have to do.

It's not a question of difficulty programming it... it's the fact that D&D rules cleave would be worthless in the realtime environment of DDO. D&D fighters defeat monsters with a hugely higher percentage of their hits than DDO fighters do, meaning that DDO fighters must be able to trigger cleave on more than just kills for it to have a similar benefit to character power.

As such whirlwind attack really needs to be reevaluated. Otherwise, why bother going for whirlwind attack with it's 3 relatively useless prerequisite feats when "cleave" performs the same way with less of a cooldown.

The best way to start fixing Whirlwind would be to fix the prereqs so that Mobility and Spring Attack are valuable feats on their own.

[Emili]

It's not a question of difficulty programming it... it's the fact that D&D rules cleave would be worthless in the realtime environment of DDO. D&D fighters defeat monsters with a hugely higher percentage of their hits than DDO fighters do, meaning that DDO fighters must be able to trigger cleave on more than just kills for it to have a similar benefit to character power.


The best way to start fixing Whirlwind would be to fix the prereqs so that Mobility and Spring Attack are valuable feats on their own.

Exactly, Cleave and greater cleave per PNP are based on turn feats... you bring a monster to 0 so you can attack the next. In realtime it has no bering.

SA was a good feat before mod 3 and had gotten worse in mod 4... reason being I think is beacause they slowed down the swinging sequences... prior to that you could actually chase a mob down and attack from behind and actually land the hits. When they modified the attack to prevent twitch fighting and slowed speed of the 1-2 sequences it affected landing the hits from behind as the server thinks the mob is further away thus the blind swings.

It used to be... you could twitch (side-step back and forth) and thus increase the speed of attacking... this of course was frowned upon by players who didn't twitch and of course turbine as it was like having haste without the spell... another thing some players would do was the weapon switch click (toolbar keyed the same weapon pressing in unison) while clicking the attack button... it would fire off swings at blinding speeds.

It are these things which they fixed... which put SA at it's almost useless postion. Although it still has it's uses in mobile jump meleeing - which of course helps prevent you from getting hit while meleeing and of course spin flanking.

Mobility of course has no use whatso-ever unless you're completely turtling.