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  1. #1
    Producer Tolero's Avatar
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    Arrow Tell The DDO Community Team #12

    It's that time again...

    How it works:
    I'll be asking you questions, and here in my thread, you tell me: What comes to mind; what you think; how you feel; etc, as it relates to the question(s) at hand. If you missed the previous week's questions, they'll be listed below and you can answer them here too. Thank you so much to everyone for offering their answers!

    Ground Rules:
    Before we get started, let's lay down three ground rules if you're going to participate in the thread. These ground rules also have a few samples to help clarify participation:

    #1 - The single most important rule to remember while participating in this thread is:
    No personal attacks.
    If you disagree with the opinion of another participant, that's fine, but no one can make anyone agree to their opinion. Thus, please refrain from commenting on the personal qualities of others who offer their responses to the question(s). Personal attacks go against forum guidelines. Questions asked will be subjective, and some users will have a lot related to their opinion, while others may only define things in short phrases. All forms are acceptable.
    Hypothetical Example:
    Tolero "Do you like ice cream?"
    Player 1 "I hate ice cream because it's too tough to scoop"
    Acceptable "I like it. It's not that bad to scoop once you let it sit on the counter for a little bit before you try to dip it Player 1."
    Acceptable "I like it but I have the same problem as Player 1. What brand is it Player 1?"
    Acceptable "I don't think it's too hard, I never have any problem with it. I like ice cream."
    Unacceptable "That's cause you're a noob..."
    Unacceptable "You don't have enough experience with scooping to be talking about how difficult it is"
    Unacceptable "How about you back that opinion up with some numbers. If you can't prove it don't bring it here"

    Everyone has the right to offer their response to the question(s), whether they have scientific data to back up their feelings, or they simply just "feel" a certain way towards the question(s).

    #2 - Participate as well as discuss.
    If you would like to join in the discussion, please be sure to offer your response to the questions as well, in addition to your conversation with any other thread participants
    Hypothetical Example:
    Tolero "What's your favorite color?"
    Player 1 "Blue"
    Player 2 "Green"
    Acceptable "Purple... hey Player 2, how come you like Green?"
    Unacceptable "hey Player 2 how come you like Green?"

    Please be sure to take the time to offer your own opinion of the question(s) before you engage in a discussion about other people's opinions in the thread.

    #3 - Don't recycle the above hypothetical examples in your responses as it spams the thread.
    -------------------------- Let's Get Started! --------------------------

    If you missed last week's questions, you're welcome to answer them now in addition to this week's:


    Question 1
    What is your primary motivation for attending a Live Event?

    Question 2
    Of any Live Event from any MMO, what is one of your favorite events you attended?

    Question 3
    This event had several aspects to it over the course of the week. Rank the following choices from most to least favorite:
    A) The story unfolding/roleplaying
    B) Jumping tower
    C) Monster fights
    D) NPC and Environment changes

    Question 4
    We'll smuggle one non-event question in with these this week: Of all the quest objectives in DDO (protecting, rescuing, puzzle solving, etc) what quest objective type do you find yourself drawn to?

    This week's question(s) are:


    Question 1
    Each week we ask questions about a range of subjects. What is a question you would ask?

    Question 2
    In any game, what types of PVP do you enjoy engaging in?
    A) I don't enjoy PVP
    B) Free for all death match
    C) Team vs Team
    D) Dueling
    E) Specialized PVP rules sets (capture the flag, tag, etc)

    Question 3
    A "Town Hall" was held on Risia, where the Community Team went in game to have an open forum for players to voice their concerns. This is a little different format than our "Dev Chats," where developers answer questions, and Dev Chats are still an activity that will continue. What are your thoughts about "Town Hall"?

  2. #2
    Community Member Rkik_Dnec's Avatar
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    Question 1
    Each week we ask questions about a range of subjects. What is a question you would ask?

    What is your favorite quest? What is your least favorite quest? What is one quest that you wish people would run more often? Why?

    Question 2
    In any game, what types of PVP do you enjoy engaging in?

    C) Team vs Team
    E) Specialized PVP rules sets (capture the flag, tag, etc)

    I tend to shy away from MMORPG PvP because it always seems like a game of Rock/Paper/Scissors where every class has a class it can beat and a class that will defeat it. Also, there always is a focus on the best gear and leveling, so if Player A spent more time/money on his character than Player B, then Player A has a much higher chance at winning in a fight regardless of the relative skill levels of the two players.

    I do a lot of FPS PvP, and truly enjoy it, but I do prefer the team aspect. Free for All deathmatch always felt too hectic for me and I just don't enjoy it. I like having an objective to aim for, and knowing that I have friends backing me up, so I can focus on what I'm best at.

    Question 3
    A "Town Hall" was held on Risia, where the Community Team went in game to have an open forum for players to voice their concerns. This is a little different format than our "Dev Chats," where developers answer questions, and Dev Chats are still an activity that will continue. What are your thoughts about "Town Hall"?


    I wasn't involved in it, but it does sound interesting. I can't really see myself participating, though, because any concerns I do have would be better voiced on the forums.
    Utinni!
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    Warhammer 40k Blog and more

  3. #3
    Community Member Pellegro's Avatar
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    Thanks Rckik - I stole your template.

    Question 1
    Each week we ask questions about a range of subjects. What is a question you would ask?

    What kind of monster would you like to face? Design a weapon that you'd like to see as named loot (but keep it reasonable). What changes would you suggest to make our less played content more enjoyable?

    Question 2
    In any game, what types of PVP do you enjoy engaging in?


    I don't PvP in DDO. I love FPS PvP - especially team-based ones with quick rounds where you get shot and you die, with defined objectives (America's Army was my fave; Rainbow Six I also enjoyed). But DDO PvP has never really gotten my interest as I have not yet gotten bored of the PvE.

    Question 3
    A "Town Hall" was held on Risia, where the Community Team went in game to have an open forum for players to voice their concerns. This is a little different format than our "Dev Chats," where developers answer questions, and Dev Chats are still an activity that will continue. What are your thoughts about "Town Hall"?


    I didn't participate. In theory it could be fun. I fear, however, that the event would be hijacked, would devolve into a whine-fest, and would leave everyone a little bitter.

    An alternative that I would find interesting would be to have random DEV encounters. Your party is walking along in (or out of) a dungeon/adventure and *poof* a DEV pops in (possibly in a cool form like a black dragon heh) and gives you 5 minutes of Q&A to express your likes/dislikes/ask questions/etc. Obviously would be a "rare" occurrence, but would be alot of fun (I'd think).
    .

  4. #4
    Community Member The_Ick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    [CENTER]

    Question 1
    Each week we ask questions about a range of subjects. What is a question you would ask?
    If you could pull one thing out of the D&D manuals (any edition) and magically plop it right into the game right now, what would it be? (for exampe: A monster, feat, spell, class, race, weapon, etc...)

    Question 2
    In any game, what types of PVP do you enjoy engaging in?
    A) I don't enjoy PVP
    B) Free for all death match
    C) Team vs Team
    D) Dueling
    E) Specialized PVP rules sets (capture the flag, tag, etc)

    Question 3
    A "Town Hall" was held on Risia, where the Community Team went in game to have an open forum for players to voice their concerns. This is a little different format than our "Dev Chats," where developers answer questions, and Dev Chats are still an activity that will continue. What are your thoughts about "Town Hall"?

    I think these threads and other forum threads like it do an adequate job of allowing players to express their opinions. I would prefer the time spent on Devs/Management answering questions.

    My answers
    ATARI SUCKS!!!!

  5. #5
    Community Member Deriaz's Avatar
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    Question 1
    Each week we ask questions about a range of subjects. What is a question you would ask?


    If you could make a raid or quest, what would it be like? The story behind it? The enemies within it? Etc.

    Question 2
    In any game, what types of PVP do you enjoy engaging in?


    A) I don't enjoy PVP

    Question 3
    A "Town Hall" was held on Risia, where the Community Team went in game to have an open forum for players to voice their concerns. This is a little different format than our "Dev Chats," where developers answer questions, and Dev Chats are still an activity that will continue. What are your thoughts about "Town Hall"?


    I didn't go to it, unfortunately--that was because I couldn't get into Risia! ><! Maybe if they were held on each server individually, it might be better. Maybe on separate days, or at the same time across all servers on the same night. . .?

    -D
    Thelanis - Warforged Shield of the <Fellowship of the Golden Night>

  6. #6
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Question 1
    Each week we ask questions about a range of subjects. What is a question you would ask?

    What is the most negative aspect of [topic] in DDO, and how would you propose to solve the issue.
    Make the [topic] anything you want... quest design, raids, weapon/armor graphics, inventory management - etc.
    People tend to be a lot more vocal when they hate something, or are frustrated by it - and even more so when they have a good idea on how to fix it.

    Question 2
    In any game, what types of PVP do you enjoy engaging in?
    A) I don't enjoy PVP
    B) Free for all death match
    C) Team vs Team
    D) Dueling
    E) Specialized PVP rules sets (capture the flag, tag, etc)

    I will qualify my answer by saying I don't think PvP belongs in DDO, I hate PvP in DDO, and I do not participate in PvP in DDO.
    But, in the multiplayer FPS games I play on a regular basis, I prefer E - capture the flag most of all.

    Question 3
    A "Town Hall" was held on Risia, where the Community Team went in game to have an open forum for players to voice their concerns. This is a little different format than our "Dev Chats," where developers answer questions, and Dev Chats are still an activity that will continue. What are your thoughts about "Town Hall"?

    I did not partake in the Town Hall because I thought that requiring us to download a separate client to have the privilege to partake in the discussion was preposterous. And, if it's held that way in the future - I won't be a part of those either. In addition, when reading the transcript of the TH Meeting, the answers just seemed to be chock full of fluff and spin doctoring - and very little substance relating to what people were asking. It seemed like a waste, imho.
    Exit, pursued by a bear. ~ William Shakespeare (stage direction from The Winter's Tale)

    .60284.

  7. #7
    Founder Vorn's Avatar
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    1. "What fighter prestige class enhancement lines do you think we should implement and why?"
    2. A (don't do PvP)
    3. I think a moderated web based event might have worked better than the Risia event. It was a nice idea but tough to execute.
    Vorn, 30 Fighter
    Argo
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  8. #8
    Community Member Tanka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    Question 1
    Each week we ask questions about a range of subjects. What is a question you would ask?
    Which quest is your favorite and why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    Question 2
    In any game, what types of PVP do you enjoy engaging in?
    A) I don't enjoy PVP
    B) Free for all death match
    C) Team vs Team
    D) Dueling
    E) Specialized PVP rules sets (capture the flag, tag, etc)
    I don't enjoy PVP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    Question 3
    A "Town Hall" was held on Risia, where the Community Team went in game to have an open forum for players to voice their concerns. This is a little different format than our "Dev Chats," where developers answer questions, and Dev Chats are still an activity that will continue. What are your thoughts about "Town Hall"?
    I don't think there was enough time to respond to as many players as there could have been. Also; the biggest problem is people spell-spamming the event and no real way to moderate players talking in general chat. Something on IRC or somesuch would allow easier control over the people asking in the chat.
    Last edited by Tanka; 03-17-2008 at 02:06 PM.
    Person Æ, Sarlona
    Tanka (Elf Tempest Trapper) .:. Darani (Aasimar Inquisileric) .:. Raelyth (Elf Artifonk)

  9. #9
    Community Member Mindspat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    This week's question(s) are:


    Question 1
    Are you interested in guild structures in the form of Castles, Keeps & Fortresses that require maintenence to repair damage from NPC aggressors?

    Question 2
    I play EVE Online. I expect Risk vs Reward and a reason to be involved. Team orriented PvP with a command structure and different rolls to be filled by the participants.

    Question 3
    Sounds cool!
    my responces have been added.
    "Nuke 'm or Die!"

  10. #10
    Founder Gornin's Avatar
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    1) Not trying to be smart here, but maybe ask the community if they feel that the game may be trending toward the power gamers and affecting the casual gamers ability to keep up.

    2) I don't PVP. I only get about 2 hours a night to play and I don't want to waste it on some thing that doesn't mean anything in my opinion.

    3)Town hall really doesn't work in a community this large, and large portion of us don't play on Risia. I think even more Dev interaction on the forums with real answers is the best. You guys have been doing much better in the recent past and I hope it continues and increases. It was especially nice to get an answer about STHF and STWF this morning from E, and there are quite a few threads that would benefit from a few minutes of Dev time. That is what I would like to see more than the Dev chat or Town hall.
    Snowleopard, Locomotiv Breath, Aqualung, Thickas a Brick, WitchsPromis, Part of the Machine, Coseyed Mary
    No whining, unless you're serving really good cheese. Otherwise, put a cork in it.

  11. #11
    Community Member Beherit_Baphomar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    This week's question(s) are:


    Question 1
    Each week we ask questions about a range of subjects. What is a question you would ask? - How often do you raid? Who do you raid with and do you think there are enough raids in this game? (Should we (Turbine) fix the Abbott?

    Question 2
    In any game, what types of PVP do you enjoy engaging in?
    A) I don't enjoy PVP
    B) Free for all death match - Only with the guild.
    C) Team vs Team - Only with the guild.
    D) Dueling
    E) Specialized PVP rules sets (capture the flag, tag, etc)

    Question 3
    A "Town Hall" was held on Risia, where the Community Team went in game to have an open forum for players to voice their concerns. This is a little different format than our "Dev Chats," where developers answer questions, and Dev Chats are still an activity that will continue. What are your thoughts about "Town Hall"? - Town Hall, to me, was more a publicity stunt than anything else. The Devs acted like politicians. "We like that idea!" "We will look into that!" "Thats something we are looking at!" "We think this would be a good addition!" Nothing concrete like "Yes, thats being worked on now" or "We are going to put that ingame, just not sure when" Most answers were smokescreens. If we could get some good answers to the questions then it would really be a very, very enjoyable event.
    Ansa's in "Been Caught Readin' The DDO Forums At Work And Now Im Embarrassed" Red.
    Binding is Admitting Defeat ~ Yndrofian
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace_ana View Post
    At least I'm not on G-Land.

  12. #12
    Community Member Jaywade's Avatar
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    Question 1
    Each week we ask questions about a range of subjects. What is a question you would ask?
    What do you think is the hardest lvl range to play currently ? Why is it hard? (content,mobs,finding grps) and what do you think could improve play at that lvl spread

    Question 2
    In any game, what types of PVP do you enjoy engaging in?
    A) I don't enjoy PVP
    B) Free for all death match
    C) Team vs Team
    D) Dueling
    E) Specialized PVP rules sets (capture the flag, tag, etc)

    Question 3
    A "Town Hall" was held on Risia, where the Community Team went in game to have an open forum for players to voice their concerns. This is a little different format than our "Dev Chats," where developers answer questions, and Dev Chats are still an activity that will continue. What are your thoughts about "Town Hall"?
    a lot of lag don;t know if in game is the best place for this type of things
    In Game- Hsc, Malcis, ESD, Narsfilth, Nashnarlar, Axeslar, Darksilence, Nullnvoid, Norvex, Takanobu, Warzerk, Harshnarlar, Antibio, Zintarnarlar, Zorest, Axenroses and Intherear Originally Posted by kaidendager "I find a larger flaw with gathering data from dissatisfied customers and forcing proposed changes on a satisfied player base"

  13. #13
    Stormreach Advisor
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    What is a question you would ask?
    If I was a dev?
    What makes DDO your MMO of choice? What are we doing differently/better than the rest?
    And then once I got a feel of the core competencies, I'd make sure we are very careful when we make changes there, and that all changes to those features make us stand out more in comparison.

    In any game, what types of PVP do you enjoy engaging in?
    A) I don't enjoy PVP

    What are your thoughts about "Town Hall"?
    So devs, in game, in a public instance, answering general chat? Sounds like a nightmare. I prefer the forums, since the devs have all the time they need to answer the questions they want to answer; and the 'Cube is looming protectively over them.
    There was a girl warforged named Cleaver.
    Every man that she loved would soon leave her.
    They all left so fast / as they couldn't get past
    the fact that she has a Brass Beaver

  14. #14
    Community Member kailus's Avatar
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    Question 1
    Entertainment, something new.

    Question 2
    Not sure it is considered a "live event" by some standards but I really enjoyed the invasions that took place in public areas in SWG. Anchorhead would get jumped by spawns of stormtroopers frequently, wiping the city. It was great fun. Of course there was always the benefit of faction/favor bonuses when participating in those things. Additionally this wasn't the only place this type of thing took place.

    Question 3
    A) The story unfolding/roleplaying
    While interesting, very long and boring to play out. Struggle to pay attention

    Question 4
    Puzzle solving is always fun. Doesn't usually cost me 10k in repair to solve a puzzle. Although I'm sure it will now.. lol
    Invariably protection type quests have a hitch that causes great frustration. The protectee draws agro constantly or the protected area has a charm monster walking to it causing failure. The potential for frustration is VERY high with those quests.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    This week's question(s) are:

    Question 1
    Each week we ask questions about a range of subjects. What is a question you would ask?

    Question 2
    In any game, what types of PVP do you enjoy engaging in?
    A) I don't enjoy PVP
    B) Free for all death match
    C) Team vs Team
    D) Dueling
    E) Specialized PVP rules sets (capture the flag, tag, etc)

    Question 3
    A "Town Hall" was held on Risia, where the Community Team went in game to have an open forum for players to voice their concerns. This is a little different format than our "Dev Chats," where developers answer questions, and Dev Chats are still an activity that will continue. What are your thoughts about "Town Hall"?
    1) Which of the following upcoming DDO developments should be the highest priority in your opinion:

    <list of things in development, such as new content, new classes, new races, new systems, etc.>

    (Alternatively, you could ask people to sort them from most important to least important.)

    2) I don't enjoy PVP

    3) Meh. They're alright, but they're never going to be what people want them to be (which is a forum to get serious answers to important questions).
    Have a question about the Eberron Setting?
    Ask a Loremaster.

  16. #16
    Community Member muffinlad's Avatar
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    Question 1
    Each week we ask questions about a range of subjects. What is a question you would ask?

    - What are we (DDO/Turbine) doing right? (I think this needs to be asked each week).

    Question 2
    In any game, what types of PVP do you enjoy engaging in?
    A) I don't enjoy PVP
    B) Free for all death match
    C) Team vs Team
    D) Dueling
    E) Specialized PVP rules sets (capture the flag, tag, etc)

    A) I don't enjoy PvP.

    Question 3
    A "Town Hall" was held on Risia, where the Community Team went in game to have an open forum for players to voice their concerns. This is a little different format than our "Dev Chats," where developers answer questions, and Dev Chats are still an activity that will continue. What are your thoughts about "Town Hall"?

    I don't like that it is on Risia.

    A) I don't want to have to download a different client, or go though the bother of setting up Risia. I used to do so for CoH, and I quickly grew tired of the technical trials this presents to the general user.

    B) I would prefer it be set up via a networking/conferencing site, where people can simply log in and listen, or perhaps download a simple app if they wanted to join in.

    muffinquestor
    Now Diving in Lava, with the Lava Divers.

    AKA, Cb,Cg,Cj,Cl,Co,Cp,Cq,Cr,Cs,Ct,Cw,Cx,Cz and...Edvard. All the other C's were taken.

  17. #17
    Founder & Hero DagazUlf's Avatar
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    This week's answers are:

    Answer 1
    Most people play games to have fun. List the top 5 things you find fun about DDO, and the top 5 things that are anti-fun.

    Answer 2
    A) I don't enjoy PVP (very much)

    However, since it is an existing game option, I'll go with the following (ranked by preference):
    C) Team vs Team
    E) Specialized PVP rules sets (capture the flag, tag, etc)
    D) Dueling
    B) Free for all death match
    Answer 3
    I enjoyed the Town Hall meeting, and I think the idea should be enhanced to allow it to become more useful and an integral part of communication between the player-base and Turbine. Ideas for enhancement:
    • Could it be held in a new Town Hall Instance that had some environmental conditions set? By conditions, could spellcasting be blocked, certain emotes turned off, devs untargettable, colors/fonts set for devs, etc. Things that would make the meeting actually work.
    • It would be nice to see some quick feedback after a Town Hall meeting. Something like an issue list from the meeting, with notes about where that issue may be going (e.g., nowhere, thinking next Mod, dev is working on it, in the queue, dead issue, etc.).
    • I don't really think one Meeting adequately covers the times available for players. Something like 3 meetings at different times with the same basic concerns being covered would be nice.
    • Repeatable! Quarterly Town Hall Meetings or a set of meetings (see above) held between each major module release would really make this the most useful.
    Thanks!
    "The sword itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with swords."



  18. #18
    Community Member moorewr's Avatar
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    Question 1
    Each week we ask questions about a range of subjects. What is a question you would ask?


    What makes quests work? Where are they lacking? Should there be more, short/mid-length upper level quests (yes!)?

    Also, in general, I'd like you to use this forum to talk to us about major changes like the Death Penalty earlier in the decision cycle.

    Question 2
    In any game, what types of PVP do you enjoy engaging in?

    D) Dueling

    Question 3
    A "Town Hall" was held on Risia, where the Community Team went in game to have an open forum for players to voice their concerns. This is a little different format than our "Dev Chats," where developers answer questions, and Dev Chats are still an activity that will continue. What are your thoughts about "Town Hall"?

    The Town hall was great as a Turbine/player social occasion. I hope you will consider doing that format on the live servers to cut down the size of the crowd at each meeting - maybe alternate that with Risia. It is a great way to talk over changes in the game, and on the live servers you could do a bit of raffling etc, which would get plenty of people in the door.
    <|| “Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch’entrate.” ||>
    AEsahaettr | AlfredSartan | Botharel | PeterMurphy | Weesham etc.

  19. #19
    Founder Ducky's Avatar
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    Question 1
    Each week we ask questions about a range of subjects. What is a question you would ask?

    List 3 things that you have done with Dungeons and Dragons on paper that could potentially qualify to make it in an online scenerio.

    Question 2
    In any game, what types of PVP do you enjoy engaging in?

    B) Free for all death match

    Question 3
    A "Town Hall" was held on Risia, where the Community Team went in game to have an open forum for players to voice their concerns. This is a little different format than our "Dev Chats," where developers answer questions, and Dev Chats are still an activity that will continue. What are your thoughts about "Town Hall"?

    Town hall questions need to be screened prior.
    The stupidity of players is overhwhelming to the point questions are repeated in several different ways and often questions are actually already answered in some other form on the internet.

  20. #20

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    Question 1
    Each week we ask questions about a range of subjects. What is a question you would ask?
    Would you like us to fix the abbot raid right now?

    Question 2
    In any game, what types of PVP do you enjoy engaging in?
    A) I don't enjoy PVP
    E) Specialized PVP rules sets (capture the flag, tag, etc)
    really not a priority for me. I enjoyed trying the settings, and speical "fun" rules are neat, but there is no in-game reward or forum status reward for participating. Pretty much a waste of time as implemented.

    Question 3
    A "Town Hall" was held on Risia, where the Community Team went in game to have an open forum for players to voice their concerns. This is a little different format than our "Dev Chats," where developers answer questions, and Dev Chats are still an activity that will continue. What are your thoughts about "Town Hall"?
    The town hall rocked. Really. However, the hours of time needed to update Risa would not be worth the event in many people's opinion. An internet chat session may be a better way to go, unless you could somehow run a town hall on the regular servers. I know you probably can't run a simultaneous town hall on all the regular servers, and probably can't just pick one server because of lag (but if you can do it without lag then go for it, it's easy to make a new character quickly if you don't usually visit a particular server), but if you can make a temporary server just for town hall meetings, or can temporarily port characters to a special instance or server that is just for meetings and won't impact server performance, then go that route. [Pretty long sentence there, but you get the idea. P.S. I'm not subscribing to this thread so I'll likely miss any replies.]
    Ghallanda (38): Vilas, Alphon, Whelm, Thaylan, Tyclmi, Amgine, Talc, Dedlee, Payle, Darell, Talenta, Zhen, Thrane, Arrith, Durdyn, Magefyre, Necrophil, Tulgey, Borogove, Hasugi, Shawal, Hailestorm, Branthan, Lightningbug, Bettercall, Elecktric, Zardu, Zergworthy, BrotherOf, Missadventer, Bytemy, Demogeorgia, Tizen, Warrcore, Permadeaf, Fullmettle, etc...

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