Why are there no Green Steel Bastard Swords?

[gpk]

And, so what... You do a few % less DPS. You (or the caster behind you :-) might die an extra time every couple of weeks... Meh...

That's untrue, it's much more than just few % less.
Take a self gird no rage human ftr with gr weapon spec w/ 32 str, mineral 2 Khopesh would beat a 2d6 base BS by ~15% average per swing.
A 17x3 is a lot more powerful in nearly all scenarios than a 17x2, the multiplier multiples strength, weapon spec, bard songs etc.
A same khopesh will always beat a same BS on crittable mobs, and the more buffs and feats you throw into the mix the wider the gap. Typically it can be 10-15%, not like 1-5%, 10-15% is a lot in DDO.

In fact a less-good khop can often match a "better" BS, and now with crafting it's not even a contest anymore.

[JFeenstra]

Umm I'm pretty sure he meant the reach in-game.

greatsword reach is still farther in game than that of other weapons of the non 2h variety

[Angelus_dead]

greatsword reach is still farther in game than that of other weapons of the non 2h variety

Ha ha, what?

In DDO, a greataxe AND longsword both have more reach than a greatsword.

[Angelus_dead]

So, if you were a Human Fighter (who happens to have more feats than he can use anyway), you might choose a BS because it is equal for you to the DAxe and almost as good as a Kopesh. But you can outfit yourself with every type of BS in the game for very low cost.

It is true that a human fighter who already had the khopesh feat might decide to learn bastard sword if he found a few good cheap bastards. That was already alluded to.

However, he would not then go ahead and decide to craft a green steal bastard! The same ingredients could give him a much better khopesh.

[JFeenstra]

Ha ha, what?

In DDO, a greataxe AND longsword both have more reach than a greatsword.

first of all, i said non-2h variety, last time i checked, a greataxe was a 2h weapon...and i can hit stuff from behind a guy using a longsword with a greatsword, but he can't hit stuff when standing behind me...how does he have a longer reach?

[Angelus_dead]

i can hit stuff from behind a guy using a longsword with a greatsword, but he can't hit stuff when standing behind me...

That's false.

[Deriaz]

That's false.

I dunno. I've done that once or twice with a greatsword. Don't be so quick to dismiss it.

-D

[Emili]

If I'm not mistaken, khopeshes and bastard swords both have the base crit range of 19-20. So once you get to the 'big 5' class of weapons, the multiplier bonus of the khopesh is (slightly) negated also since the 'big 5' tend to go for instant kill instead of damage(and vorpal is only on a 20). So in the end, use what you want, and allow others to do the same. Plenty of swords out there for everyone.

The BS is a 13% less damaging weapon than a khopesh against mob you can crit... like itemed and stated characters across the board will definately notice this... even a miniscule 5% in DnD goes quite far.

Hmmm, hovering around the mean they look like this...

BS = (BS)5.5 + (34str) mod 12 + (Madstone) 2 + (rage spell/pot) 1 + (GWS) 4 + (PA) 5 + (Bloodstone) 6 + (Bard song) 5 = 40.5 (at 20 swings along with x2 17-20 - provided crits is like 24 swings) yields 972

Khopesh = (Khopesh)4.5 + (34str) mod 12 + (Madstone) 2 + (rage spell/pot) 1 + (GWS) 4 + (PA) 5 + (Bloodstone) 6 + (Bard song) 5 = 39.5 (at 20 swings along with x3 17-20 - provided crits is like 28 swings) yields 1106

The differnce here is 134 on average for 20 swings on critable mob in favor of the Khopesh compared to 30 in favor of the BS when mob is not critable.

Coming back to the big 5... even if you were choosing one which would you pick? Vorpal Khopesh, Vorpal BS, Vorpal Longsword or Vorpal Sickle. To state it does not matter because all you wish to see it the 20 and confirm seems shortsighted to me. What happens when you're not rolling that 20? How quick does the mob go down then?

[KristovK]

That's false.

No, it ain't false, it's something those of us who use GA's and GS's have noticed many a time, we can hit stuff at a greater distance, quite noticable when you are standing behind someone hitting the mob in front of them...especially if it's a Power V weapon and you vorp/disrupt the mob

The OP asked a simple question, why aren't there any Green Steel BS's. Didn't ask if they were a good weapon, didn't ask for a breakdown of the DPS of every weapon, which ones are better against what and so on. Believe it or not, some of us don't actually care about those factors when we play the game, it's not a factor when we build a character and decide what weapons to use. Yes, some of us do actually decide to wear lesser armor because it looks better, we use lesser weapons because they look better, and we even make characters who are not min/max'd! I know, I know, it's a shock, it's some sort of sin, but some of us who've played for a while and actually know how the game works do NOT min/max or break down the DPS of every single thing in the game by level and ability score and our characters...sit down, this WILL be a shock to your system...our characters are NOT gimped! I know, it's amazing, but our characters can do elite raids without having a total wipe every time! Some of us even use 28pt builds still....oh..sorry..someone get a glass of water...drink this, you'll feel better...put your head down between your knees and breath slow and deep...there you go...better now?

I've been playing since April of 06, still using the first character I made, 28pt stock elf Wiz, and he keeps up with the drow and 32pt elf Wiz's just fine. I've got a fighter who uses bastard swords AND khopeshes, not because the DPS on the khop is so great but because I pulled a really sweet khop and didn't want to just sell it to the House D shop or put on the forums and see if anyone would give me a decent trade for it(this was before the AH), so I took the feat. Took the bastard sword feat for the same reason, even debated taking dwarven axe, but decided that my elf just wouldn't do that, gotta have standards after all. I even have a halfling finesse paladin that is a total blast to play. True, his DPS sucks serious wind, but he's loaded with matched sets of para's, maladriots, wounders, and so on, so he more then pulls his weight...ok..he pulls the weight of the dwarf barb along with his own, and has pulled more then one last man standing act and dragged everyone to the shrine. He's a little whirling dervish support character, puts on one hell of a show in combat spinning round and round like a little cuisenart on crack in an earthquake. Definately not something a min/maxer would build or run, stats are way too spread out, and he hardly ever leads the kill counts...but **** ain't he a blast to play! Need a resist, gotcha covered! Barb about to drop, LoH ftw! Cleric getting creamed, LoH ftw again! Undead crowding you, Turn Undead ftw..well..ok..can't make em go all sparkly and vanish usually, but they do get scared and stop trying to eat your brains, cowering in fear while you take your time and destroy them.

Some of us want the ability to craft items of all sorts, even if some of you powergamers with 2000+favor on all 40 of your toons don't see any reason to be able to craft anything beyond the top DPS items.

[Angelus_dead]

No, it ain't false, it's something those of us who use GA's and GS's have noticed many a time, we can hit stuff at a greater distance, quite noticable when you are standing behind someone hitting the mob in front of them...especially if it's a Power V weapon and you vorp/disrupt the mob

You are wrong.

You can test it if you want.
1. Ask a wizard to turn a monster to stone for you.
2. Swing a greatsword at it.
3. Keep backing away until your greatsword stops hitting.
4. Stand in place.
5. Swing a longsword at it.
6. Notice that from the same position, the longsword is hitting but the greatsword wasn't

[Riminy]

Do you think they didn't implement everyone single weapon/item into mod 6 because it would just be too much? There would be too many combinations, too many ingredients. It has been said that mod 6 crafting was just like a prototype.

If they made more weapons/items to choose from then obivously they are going to need more ingredients to cover the amount of combinations needed. Which would probably be somwhere of double and triple of what we have now. Now is it really right that we have 5 or so ingredients more drop from each quest? Mod 6 would become even more of a grind fest. It wouldnt just be the shroud. What if you needed 3 of this ingredient but you had a 1 in 6 chance of getting each time you did that quest. How fun would it be to run each vale quest 18 times so you could make your green steel weapon! Not to mention those with more then one character. (And here we are talking about those elitists and the casual gamer, i would assume by the time a casual gamer runs each vale quest 18 times on all 3 or 4 characters, it would be module 7 by then)

Now what if that quest was boring and repetitive and overall not very fun at all. This kind of thing drives people away from the game. Not to mention how much more time it would take them to make new combinations. I really do prefer the modules on time.

Just because they are not in mod 6 (The prototype crafting module) does not mean they won't be in another. The same applies for all items not currently in the game for crafting.

Maybe next you can argue why there isn't a kukri in my tome pages reward. That'd help me out alot. I believe there is a bastard sword there, but no khopesh. Maybe my next thread could be, why isn't there a khopesh in my tome page rewards? Everything has to be equal right? Wrong..

[JFeenstra]

You are wrong.

You can test it if you want.
1. Ask a wizard to turn a monster to stone for you.
2. Swing a greatsword at it.
3. Keep backing away until your greatsword stops hitting.
4. Stand in place.
5. Swing a longsword at it.
6. Notice that from the same position, the longsword is hitting but the greatsword wasn't

that only works because of the attack animation of the longsword, the third swing (thrust) gives you greater range than the greatsword and is the only hit that will reach the target

other than that, the greatsword has longer rage by approx 1/2 a step, its not noticeable, but it's there...3/3 greatsword swings hit where only 2/3 of the longsword swings did

tested in the vale by elantra

[Laith]

other than that, the greatsword has longer rage by approx 1/2 a step, its not noticeable, but it's there...3/3 greatsword swings hit where only 2/3 of the longsword swings did

so... just repeat the steps angelus presented starting with the longsword instead?

in the end though, i'm confused: how, in a controlled test, if it's "not noticeable", did you notice it?

[JFeenstra]

so... just repeat the steps angelus presented starting with the longsword instead?

in the end though, i'm confused: how, in a controlled test, if it's "not noticeable", did you notice it?

i missed a word...should have said 'not really noticeable'

its such a small distance difference (about 1/4cm on screen) that it's not really worth arguing about

also tested it on a large monster (troll)...distance was equal

first test was done on a rat

[elraido]

It's very understandable why some categories of items are abscent- armor, shields, rings. Those things just aren't on the menu for this quest, and that's quite fine.

But what isn't understandable is why there is only one of the prefered kinds of melee weapons in there. The list of the top 10 most desired weapons are:
Greataxe, Rapier, Khopesh, Heavy Pick, Dwarf Axe, Light Pick, Kukri, Handaxe, Battleaxe, Scimitar. Yet only khopesh made the cut. I wonder why the bias for a single weapon...

Because a lot of the other ones could be considered over powered in Green Steel form. The only one on that list that requires a feat is the khopesh...kind of balances.