Why are there no Green Steel Bastard Swords?

[TechNoFear]

Also missing H/L picks and H/L repeating crossbows. With axes, that is all the weps my characters prefer to use.

I suppose if Khopeshes had been ignored then the forums would be alight with complaints.

Name one raid that gives all of those items as named items.

Name one named repeater crossbow, let alone a raid loot one.

Name one raid loot pick.

Yet there are a couple of named / raid loot of many of the other weps you can craft.

[QuantumFX]

Name one named repeater crossbow, let alone a raid loot one.

<sarcasm on> But you have Hobble's Crossbow! Why can't you crossbowmen just be happy!!!<sarcasm off>

Name one raid loot pick.

Not a raid weapon but definately the cadillac of heavy picks: Deathnip

Just so you know - I'm not disagreeing that we need some more weapon choices.

[Arj]

Wow, given the self-righteousness of the first reply I'm surprised there were any positive comments in this thread at all! Good on you Angelus - not only did you set me straight by pointing out my obvious inability to play this game, but by aggressively jumping on an innocent and genuine question you provided yet another excellent example of why the forum community is so often accused of being a bunch of elitist wankers.

Anyway, back on topic - devs are you guys looking to expand the list of weapons and items currently available or is this a Mod 7 thing?

[Angelus_dead]

Wow, given the self-righteousness of the first reply I'm surprised there were any positive comments in this thread at all! Good on you Angelus - not only did you set me straight by pointing out my obvious inability to play this game, but by aggressively jumping on an innocent and genuine question you provided yet another excellent example of why the forum community is so often accused of being a bunch of elitist wankers.

There was nothing aggressive, and nothing about your ability to play the game. You asked a question, and I answered it, accurately and concisely.

Q: Why no green steel bastard sword?
A: Because bastard swords suck.

That's the truth. DDO players who use bastard swords are making a mistake. It's not a matter of opinion: spending a feat to do less damage is simply wrong.

[Hvymetal]

There was nothing aggressive, and nothing about your ability to play the game. You asked a question, and I answered it, accurately and concisely.

Q: Why no green steel bastard sword?
A: Because bastard swords suck.

That's the truth. DDO players who use bastard swords are making a mistake. It's not a matter of opinion: spending a feat to do less damage is simply wrong, If you are a Min-Maxer.

Fixed it for ya


Arj, and actually it is because a majority (or at least the most vocal portion) of the forum community is a bunch of elitist wankers

[Angelus_dead]

Wow, given the self-righteousness of the first reply I'm surprised there were any positive comments in this thread at all! Good on you Angelus - not only did you set me straight

In case you do not know this, using a Bastard Sword in DDO is almost always a mistake. Depending on other factors, you would be better off switching to a Khopesh, a Scimitar, or a Dwarven Waraxe. All of them do more damage, and aside from the khopesh they use fewer feats.

The following are valid reasons to use a bastard sword. None of them would support adding a green steel bastard:
1. You like the look (not enough of a reason to provide Green Steel bastards)
2. You found some awesome +3 Holy Silver Bastard Sword of Greater Evil Outsider Bane (does not apply when crafting your own weapon)
3. You are attacking crit-immune monsters who do not have DR against slashing. (Monsters fitting that description are so uncommon you'd be better off carrying one or two Greater Bane weapons of the matching kind)

[Angelus_dead]

Fixed it for ya

Really? So when is it a good idea to spend a feat to do less damage?

[Hvymetal]

Really? So when is it a good idea to spend a feat to do less damage?

Perhaps when you are playing a video game to have fun and to you fun does not revolve around min maxing to eeke out an extra 2.5&#37; average damage per swing (obviously an exagerration on the % part but makes my point).

In all honestey I have a Paladin that uses Bastard Swords because at the time I did not have many good ones and I collected a pretty good collection so didn't want to respec and I have one that uses Khopeshes, yes there is a slight advantage in damage a Khopesh puts out, but realistically in an actual combat you are looking at maybe 1 or 2 extra swings, thats about it in reality. Hey I have and idea!!!!! We should just go ahead and get rid of all weapons other than Greataxes, Dwarven Axes, Rapiers, Khopeshes, Short Swords, Long Swords, Longbows and Heavy Repeaters, because I personally can't for the life of me could think of any reason why anybody would use a weapon other than these as they are all mathmatically superior (considering enhancments and swing speeds) to every other weapon out there.

Perhaps it is because you do not want to run around with a Sorceror or a Dwarven or Elven/Drow Barb either using a Greataxe or dual weilding Rapiers? Maybe you would like to enjoy a charcter that exhibits some difference from a majority of the other clones running around out there?

Perhaps this is a good reason why Bastard Swords should be added to the Green Steel list rather than Khopeshes? Or perhaps because adding Bastard Swords would not do 1 thing to alter your character or your enjoyment at all???

[Dimicron]

And some people might actually have more bastard swords in the bank than khopeshes. Surprising, I know! Most bastard swords look cooler IMO as well. Then there's the extra reach factor a bastard sword has over a khopesh when both are wielded by a halfling.

[Wire_Paladin]

In case you do not know this, using a Bastard Sword in DDO is almost always a mistake. Depending on other factors, you would be better off switching to a Khopesh, a Scimitar, or a Dwarven Waraxe. All of them do more damage, and aside from the khopesh they use fewer feats.

So I wonder, when you are forming groups/raids do you post that Bastard Sword users need not apply? In your push for uniformity instead of diversity, is it a mistake to make characters from specific races instead of the "optimum race" that you have designated. And perhaps its a waste of time to make certain class characters instead of the more damage producing classes because they're not needed.

Enlighten us.


A Human Pure Paladin who uses Bastard Swords

[Boldrin]

My take is.... if they gave us everything now, what would there be to look forward to?? I'm very happy with all my tier 2 items and weapons, and can't wait for a few special tier 3's I'm making.

[Missing_Minds]

Really? So when is it a good idea to spend a feat to do less damage?

So what did you to do make your opinion become fact?

Fact: the BS is not the highest DPS weapon out there by any means.
Fact: the BS has the longest reach of any sword out there, and yes, the game does pay attention to this.

In answer to your question, "when it fits the character build per the player's desires."

Now I'm not going to say the next is fact, but I have found it much much easier to outfit some really great weapons going BS as compared to Khopesh, esp for people new to the game or those that don't have a whole lot of plat laying around.

As to the ops question... The answer is none of us really knows the logic in their choices for the first run of raid items.

[gpk]

Oh come on now let's not sugar coat it, bastard swords pretty much are a waste of feat, especially now that you can craft a khopesh.

If your AC matters, do you use a +3 shield over a +5 because it's better looking?
If your AC matters, do you use +4 full plate over +5 mithral full plate because it's sexier?
If your DPS matters, do you use the +1 holy weapon over a +5 holy pure good because it has a nicer looking model?
Well at least the 3 little examples listed above don't require you to give up a feat.

As I've mentioned before yes it's potentially easier to use BSes rather than khops barely anyone uses em, there isn't that more more availability to justify the choice imo; again it's moot w/ craftable khops.
The "longer reach" is a pretty insignificant reason to take BSes imo, certainly not worth a feat and lost DPS.

To pass on better gear for looks is just silly, besides all cats look the same in the bark.

[Hvymetal]

Oh come on now let's not sugar coat it, bastard swords pretty much are a waste of feat, especially now that you can craft a khopesh.

If your AC matters, do you use a +3 shield over a +5 because it's better looking?
If your AC matters, do you use +4 full plate over +5 mithral full plate because it's sexier?
If your DPS matters, do you use the +1 holy weapon over a +5 holy pure good because it has a nicer looking model?
Well at least the 3 little examples listed above don't require you to give up a feat.

As I've mentioned before yes it's potentially easier to use BSes rather than khops barely anyone uses em, there isn't that more more availability to justify the choice imo; again it's moot w/ craftable khops.
The "longer reach" is a pretty insignificant reason to take BSes imo, certainly not worth a feat and lost DPS.

To pass on better gear for looks is just silly, besides all cats look the same in the bark.

Whoosh... over your head also I see?

[gpk]

Whoosh... over your head also I see?

Is that where that breeze came from ? Do break it down for me.
Since you aren't concerned with beating down mobs faster, why would't you just craft a longsword? Heck for 2 AP your pally can get a +1 to hit with longswords.

[Dimicron]

You know, I remember once upon a time when bastard swords were one of the better feats before Turbine changed the rules for khopeshes. I still believe that doing that was a mistake.

[Draclaud]

Wow... what we have in the Shroud, is RAID CRAFTING. Name one raid that gives all of those items as named items.

You never asked why there were no great axes in the dragon or named rings from the demon queen... so why are you asking why these aren't in the latest raid?

No axes anywhere...period...Kinda weak imho

[Vorn]

I wonder if the value of the poor, much-maligned b.sword will go up any if 1) a craftable one comes on line and 2) high level mobs increasingly get access to fort, perhaps even, heavy fort? Any villian worth his salt ought to go farm the orchard for a minos helm!

[Emili]

You know, I remember once upon a time when bastard swords were one of the better feats before Turbine changed the rules for khopeshes. I still believe that doing that was a mistake.

Aye, turbine changed the rules behind the khopesh, but also WOTC changed the weapon rules behind DnD at 3.0... Prior to 3.0 the BS was a flexible and deadly weapon compared to the others ... it was one of the few which could be used both one handed and two handed - thus the real reason it required a feat originally. If you looked at the weapons before 3.0 rules the BS was a king of one handed DPS and was almost on par with the greatsword (the DPS king of 2-handers in pre 3.0 PnP dnd rulesets). DDO's combat system plus the 3.5 ruleset made these weapons a thing of the past DnD...

No axes anywhere...period...Kinda weak imho

One word... Limbchopper among the axe, also in the past as far as BS go the double bladed one and pursyl's come to mind...

It does not surprise me there are no axes or rapiers among the greensteel sets because they seem to be the prefered via racial enhancement lines... thus i see it as some form of attempt to even out the weapons a tad... obviously the khopesh which is the prefered slashing weapon among non-dwarves and non-elves seemed to make it because it costs a feat and not 2-6 easy ap to make it more effective. The longsword probably due to the fact that even most elves prefer the rapier and follow the piercing route for the greater threat ranges... It may be the dev's actually viewing what they see happening in the game and trying to place some worth on more items available in the game? At least that's the logical conclusion I arrive at given what I see happening in the game... is it no surprise that deathnips exist from the previous mod? It may be that they're attempting to do what any good DM would try to do, placing some worth to as many items in the game as they can. All in all though I do not see why a BS did not make the list either.

Looking back... you can see things such as carniflex(which was a great weapon for it's lvl), then things latter like inssurection (which only is good for pounding on a portal for the most part)... quite a few attempts were nothing but a drop of wated in the sea.

[Deriaz]

If your AC matters, do you use a +3 shield over a +5 because it's better looking? Yes. I've wasted a lot of plat, just looking for a shield that looks good on my character. Settled on a +3 Stability Tower Shield (And I'm Lawful Good).
If your AC matters, do you use +4 full plate over +5 mithral full plate because it's sexier? Yes, but I'm not a fleshie. So change that to Docent. Heheh.
If your DPS matters, do you use the +1 holy weapon over a +5 holy pure good because it has a nicer looking model? Yup! Find myself using a +1 weapon a lot, just cause I like the look of the blade over Charoush's Inferno, sometimes.
Well at least the 3 little examples listed above don't require you to give up a feat. But thankfully, that doesn't matter when you're just out to have fun and not min-max.

To pass on better gear for looks is just silly--or is a choice made by the player who isn't looking, as Hvymetal said, to squeeze out every ounce of damage they possibly can.

My answers in red to your quiz. :3

-D