Increase rate of fire?

[Knightrose]

One thing I have always longed to enjoy in DDO is a pure sniper. A Ranger designed to rely chiefly on ranged combat DPS. I still do not (to this day) feel that is possible. Even with Deepwood Sniper enh.

Would it be so imbalancing to increase the rate-of-fire with ranged weaponry (especially bows) so as to make Ranged-Ranger DPS more competitive?

I've also felt oppressed by many dungeon designs with Rangers I have played.

Of course it is clear that a Ranger is designed to be the versatile combatant. But they are also (by D&D norm) a class specifically designed to excel at Ranged combat. They do excel, but I feel they are underpowered.

What must be done? Should anything be done?

[Xaxx]

so you want more dps when the entire point of your dps is to stay out of the way of mobs.... tanks dps stays right in the path of mobs and takes dmg.... do you not see the trade off between the two here... you know the *tanks take dmg ranged is supposed to keep out of range of it*...... so why should the dpb be closer???

[Knightrose]

Well there's many ways to approach your argument Xaxx. All I'll point our right now is that a sniper also makes sacrfices in order to be specialized in ranged combat.

I guess another suggesion could be making Deepwood Sniper enh. more like a Barbarians Critical Rage enh.

[Altarboy]

so you want more dps when the entire point of your dps is to stay out of the way of mobs.... tanks dps stays right in the path of mobs and takes dmg.... do you not see the trade off between the two here... you know the *tanks take dmg ranged is supposed to keep out of range of it*...... so why should the dpb be closer???

Ummm my Sorc will out DPS any tank....and he's ranged too. I agree with the OP I would love to see a little more firepower for a true range-ranger

[Turen]

Rangers or fighters that are achery spec'd do not crit anywhere near enough. That is half the problem. Most of the bows crit on a natural 20 and with the correct skills crit on a 19 to 20. There is maybe a few bows that crit on 19-20 then goto 17-20. Just about any weapon a fighter gets can be made to crit on a 17-20 and I have heard people using rapiers critting as low as a 13. That is not balanced at all.

[llevenbaxx]

so you want more dps when the entire point of your dps is to stay out of the way of mobs.... tanks dps stays right in the path of mobs and takes dmg.... do you not see the trade off between the two here... you know the *tanks take dmg ranged is supposed to keep out of range of it*...... so why should the dpb be closer???

If ranged combatants could kill things at range like a ftr or paly could in melee they would have little to no prob staying away from the mobs in many cases. Thats why ftr/paly/barb can easily get more hps than a ranger. Your argument doesnt really address damage delt by a character, just who can take a hit better. The two have no reason to be parallel, I can take a hit better so I should be able to hit harder? How about this; I cant take a hit as well so I should be better able to kill from range. That work?

We should be getting the same number of attacks melee get. Our stances should be toggle not timer. All these cuts have made ranged combat a sorry thing in DDO.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Multi-shot.
Improved Crit
Good bow
And often overlooked special arrows.

Your DPS will be fine.....at least for those few seconds of multi-shot.

Will you out DPS the raging Brb? Probably not, but it is possible. And you might stay alive longer....especially if you face a lot of casters.

Yeah, I wish ranged was faster too......but it's not as broken as most people think.

People really overlook special arrows....mostly because it is difficult to acquire them in numbers and they take up a lot of inventory space.........but they are great if you can get em. All my toons pass them to my Archer.

[llevenbaxx]

Your DPS will be fine.....at least for those few seconds of multi-shot.

.

Then what though?

Hope the fight is over?

If MS was toggle like power attack I dont think any of us would be here having this conversation. Its after those couple seconds are up is the problem.

Having Cold Iron and Adamantine arrows is really nice too like you said but cumbersome to really stock a useful amount. Cant wait for quivers.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Multi-shot.
Improved Crit
Good bow
And often overlooked special arrows.

Your DPS will be fine.....at least for those few seconds of multi-shot.

There are many nuances to ranged combat in DDO; stacking arrows with bows, Manyshot, "conga line" trains of mobs with Improved Precise Shot, etc.

But, 53 arrows per minute + 51 extra arrows for 20 seconds of Manyshot + 53 arrows for the next minute of Manyshot cooldown = 157 arrows per 2 minutes = 78 arrows per minute. Compare to 1HF 89 attacks per minute, TWF 168 attacks per minute, and THF 81 attacks per minute + glancing blows. Bow combat is still too slow (except for Repeaters which got a rewrite and are now too fast at 120 bolts per minute).

[Mercules]

But they are also (by D&D norm) a class specifically designed to excel at Ranged combat.

Um... actually Fighters are designed by D&D norm to excel at all forms of combat including Ranged. Rangers are specifically designed to be a great wilderness fighter and very self reliant and versatile while Fighters are designed to(oddly enough) fight. A well designed Ranged Combat Fighter will be better than a well designed Ranged Combat Ranger in D&D at ranged combat. That is their shtick.

Throw the Ranger-centric comments out and I'll agree that Ranged Combat could be better in most cases.

[Cap_Man]

The rate of fire is one issue I have with ranged combat but what finally got me to shelve my attempts at ranged toons was the unbreakable animation sequence of getting an arrow, drawing the bow and firing. Many a times I was killed mashing my sword and board hot key while my toon seemed to leisurely continue with his ranged attack. Yeah, maybe it was just the time need to switch weapons but I never have this same frustration with my twf builds when switching weapons.

I may be wrong but it seems with the ranged combat that you first finish your attack animation then go into the weapon switch delay. What ever the reason, I found it very frustrating playing a ranged toon. I've tried twice getting one toon up to level 8 and an other to level 5 before I gave up in frustration.

[JFeenstra]

The rate of fire is one issue I have with ranged combat but what finally got me to shelve my attempts at ranged toons was the unbreakable animation sequence of getting an arrow, drawing the bow and firing. Many a times I was killed mashing my sword and board hot key while my toon seemed to leisurely continue with his ranged attack. Yeah, maybe it was just the time need to switch weapons but I never have this same frustration with my twf builds when switching weapons.

I may be wrong but it seems with the ranged combat that you first finish your attack animation then go into the weapon switch delay. What ever the reason, I found it very frustrating playing a ranged toon. I've tried twice getting one toon up to level 8 and an other to level 5 before I gave up in frustration.

this definitely needs to be fixed

instant switch (basically) melee weapons but it takes a good 5-10+ seconds to swap out a bow for anything between shots, and it takes even longer with auto attack on

personally it'd be nice to be able to pop a shot off with my twf ranger and actually have my weapons out by the time i get to whatever i shot at

[llevenbaxx]

this definitely needs to be fixed

instant switch (basically) melee weapons but it takes a good 5-10+ seconds to swap out a bow for anything between shots, and it takes even longer with auto attack on

personally it'd be nice to be able to pop a shot off with my twf ranger and actually have my weapons out by the time i get to whatever i shot at

Quick Draw would almost completely alleviate your problem I think... at the cost of a feat. Its the quickest switch out possible. Have only tried it on a thrown weapon character but it did seem to change weapons almost immediately.

Another way to bolster ranged combat is in crafting possibly. Making custom arrows might also help. Curse-spewing arrows from a paralyzing bow. Bursting arrows from a bursting of PG bow. ROF and toggle MS seem to be the biggest no brainers to correct its gimpyness though imo.

[JFeenstra]

Quick Draw would almost completely alleviate your problem I think... at the cost of a feat. Its the quickest switch out possible. Have only tried it on a thrown weapon character but it did seem to change weapons almost immediately.

Another way to bolster ranged combat is in crafting possibly. Making custom arrows might also help. Curse-spewing arrows from a paralyzing bow. Bursting arrows from a bursting of PG bow. ROF and toggle MS seem to be the biggest no brainers to correct its gimpyness though imo.

that'd be a great way to waste a feat for my ranger, who will be pure twf at 16

toggle ms, however, would solve all ranged issues, as it'd be around 2.5-3x ROF, no one would ever turn it off

[Mercules]

I may be wrong but it seems with the ranged combat that you first finish your attack animation then go into the weapon switch delay. What ever the reason, I found it very frustrating playing a ranged toon. I've tried twice getting one toon up to level 8 and an other to level 5 before I gave up in frustration.

this definitely needs to be fixed

instant switch (basically) melee weapons but it takes a good 5-10+ seconds to swap out a bow for anything between shots, and it takes even longer with auto attack on

personally it'd be nice to be able to pop a shot off with my twf ranger and actually have my weapons out by the time i get to whatever i shot at

This was changed to fix an issue where moving, clicking on anything, sneezing, restarted your load animation. Basically if you fired an arrow and switched to a weapon, when you switched back you would "reload". It was very difficult to reload when EVERYTHING broke it. They made it so you can reload while moving, but their compromise was that you couldn't do anything else until you reload your weapon. It wouldn't be that big of a deal if the game correctly read my clicks and I often didn't have an "extra" shot after I stop clicking. I have gotten pretty good with 3 clicking a repeater, but I have issues interrupting bow attacks.

that'd be a great way to waste a feat for my ranger, who will be pure twf at 16

toggle ms, however, would solve all ranged issues, as it'd be around 2.5-3x ROF, no one would ever turn it off

No... it would NOT solve ALL ranged issues as throwing weapons and crossbows are not affected by multi-shot. So it would solve 1/3 of the ranged issues.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I would never say that ranged combat is not broke or does not need improving.

But....

for 20secs you can rule!

Ranged combat is not just for rangers.
My ranged ftr is better than any ranger I have seen. (with my bow.....and before MOD6)
Ranged fixes need to apply to all......even clerics with crossbows.

And you have to know when to switch to melee to avoid being whacked or how to get out of the way, preferably in a way that does not anger your fellow players as they run around after the monster you have agroed.

I have taken a trick from arcanes........run toward the charging baddie and toward your party......jump over the baddie.....then turn around and run backwards...........seems to have better chance of not being whacked on.
(like jumping around through a firewall)
Or if you choose to switch to melee....do so very early to avoid being whacked......unfortuanately some baddies will then decide to turn around and go after someone else......but it seems if you switch back to ranged, they do not reagro on you as quickly as usual.

Wait to attack until someone else already has agro......and if you are still drawing agro after this.....well......I'd say your DPS is fine.

[Mercules]

I have taken a trick from arcanes........run toward the charging baddie and toward your party......jump over the baddie.....then turn around and run backwards...........seems to have better chance of not being whacked on.

I tend to keep track of where the mob and I are in relation to more melee-centric characters and tumble through them if I gain more agro than I want. This usually results in the mobs having to move around the other character and either they whack them and gain their agro, or the time they wasted going around the other character gives me a few more shots to finish them off. Don't kite away from your party when you can bring them right too someone else who can help you kill them.

[JFeenstra]

No... it would NOT solve ALL ranged issues as throwing weapons and crossbows are not affected by multi-shot. So it would solve 1/3 of the ranged issues.

i've yet to see a high level char using an xbow that's not a repeater, and definitely dont see throwing weapons being used unless they're like vorpal or something

[Mercules]

i've yet to see a high level char using an xbow that's not a repeater, and definitely dont see throwing weapons being used unless they're like vorpal or something

And? That means we should just ignore them? Next you will be saying Light Hammers shouldn't spawn as treasure because they are worse than Light Maces and Bastard Swords should be removed as well.

I do use throwing weapons on any non-ranged focussed character. Many of them have looked for weapons with an extra affect sometimes something as simple as Shock. They are not my primary weapon, but I do make use of them. Not everyone hits haste and charges or buffs with Jump, Displacement, and Haste and drops a Firewall. Some people pull a mob or two out of a group, finish them off and then finish off the now weakened group.

[JFeenstra]

throwing weapons, especially returners, are already too quick imo...when i can stack FIVE of them on top of each other in a wall, where am i getting my extra 4 when i throw my returner? it should take time to get back to you

as for xbows, they're supposed to be considerably slower than regular bows, look up the physics of them they take a long time to reload and do more damage because of how they're put together

in retrospect, always on multishot would make ranged combat something that gets considerably abused, especially with crafted weapons like the ~700 damage shock bow