WF Generalist - Who is Stealth, UMD, & PvP capable

[Daemonis]

Background: I recently retired both my capped 32.WF Necromancer (Wizard) and 32.WF Sorcerer, in favor of what I believe will be my final WF arcane build. My penultimate WF arcane represents, for me, the culmination of my experience playing/tweaking several builds drawn from both classes of arcane casters and is predicated on my belief that the versatile Wizard, while presently situationally powerful, will become only more powerful as the game continues to mature (and more, more spells are added to the game).

My experience playing at the end game tells me that area of effect CC, especially mass charms via Symbol of Persuasion, Mass Suggestion, and (eventually/especially) Mass Charm Monster is a pathway to quest domination at the end game (and also is SP conservative). Charm mobs: Have 10-100x the hit points melee characters in the party typically have and often hit just as hard, don’t ask for buffs, and don’t need healing. They are literally disposable heroes. A (ch)army meant to soak and deal damage and then die.

My experience playing at the end game also tells me that UMD, even on a WF Wizard, has an important role.

Ghoste has shown us with his crafty videos that Stealth, in general, and especially on Wizards, can be an important facet to game play to promote SP conservation and soloing capabilities.

Therefore, my goals when I set out to manufacture my Wizard included:
1) WF, as they are my preferred character race owing to significant racial immunities and self-healing capacity without fancy gear right out of the creation forge (@level 1).
2) Max INT for a non-Drow.
3) Reasonably high CON to promote survivability.
4) Must have both spell penetration feats.
5) Have all the important soloist/party support/PvP feats, including extend, empower, maximize, heighten, enlarge, and quicken.
6) Functional UMD at mid- to late-end game.
7) Stealth capable.

Constructive criticism is always welcome. Regards, -Daemonis.

==========================
Stelemagus

32.WF True Neutral Generalist Wizard - Who is Stealth, UMD, & PvP capable.

WF Racial Traits: Immunities (sleep, nausea, exhaustion, poison, disease, paralysis effects, energy drain, spells that target humanoids such as hold person, DQ wrack, earth elemental grab), extended time underwater before drowning, composite plating (+2AC, light fortification), healed by Arcane (full effect) or Divine spells (at –50%), automatic stabilization (free Diehard feat).

Starting Stats: S8 D12 C16 I18 W6 CH12

[Endgame Stats, depending on gear/tomes should be: ~ S14 D18 C24 I33 W12 CH18]

Feats:
1) Mental toughness I
1, Bonus) Extend
3) Heighten
5, Bonus) Maximize
6) Mental toughness II
9) Spell Penetration I
10, Bonus) Quicken (situational, when soloing/Raid/PvPing)
12) Spell Penetration II
15) Empower
15, Bonus) Enlarge (can CC/instadeath from afar before you are detected or your Sorcerer companion can nuke or kill them! LOL. Also helpful in PvP).

Skills: Max Concentration, UMD, Hide, Move silently, and Spot. Rest of skill points go into Balance. 1 Rank in Tumble at creation.

Note1: End game UMD (assuming 18CHA, greater heroism, and Golden Cartouche) = 20. Enough to wand whip the incapacitated party Cleric off the floor or equip most RR gear in the game. UMD will go higher with better gear.

Note2: End game Stealth (assuming 18DEX, greater heroism, Docent of greater shadow, Boots of Elvenkind +13) = 32Hide & 30Move silently, not including the effects of Invisibility. With practice, your skills using stealth will increase. I can personally attest that you will experience some growing pains, LOL.

Spell Points: ~1490-1755 depending on gear.

Hit Points: ~254+ depending on gear/tomes.

Career Development:
Early: Elemental manipulation (Fire/cold) spec’d, max INT, Energy, WF CON.
Late: Energy manipulation (Acid/lightning) IV, Elemental manipulation II or more, INT III, spell pen III enhancements, WF CON II, Energy IV, and whatever else.

Regards,
-Daemonis.

[Stealthbr]

You sure you want to use some normal feat slots for metamagic feats instead of other feats like SF?

[Daemonis]

Hi Stealthbr,

Yes, I’m fairly confident in my selection and timing of feats. I wanted to fit in all the important soloist and PvP feats, while also having Spell Penetration I & II and Mental Toughness I & II at the current level cap.

I would add that the versatility of Wizardry has always allowed optimization and strategic power as a generalist, even without the added benefit of spell school focus feats. Facing high Fortitude mobs? Then select area of effect Will or Reflex-based save spell to CC them. If you only cast 1 or 2 spells frequently (one size fits all), then obtaining the highest possible DC will be important.

As it stands, assuming a modest INT of 32 (18max starting INT, +6item, +3enhancements, +4levels, +1tome) with the Heighten meta-magic feat enabled, all spell DC’s = 10base+11INT+8Heighten => 29 with +23spell penetration without school focus item or spell penetration items. With a spell focus item and the highest greater/spell penetration item you can equip, spell DC’s will equal 30 with a 1d20+26 or +25 chance to beat spell resistance. Not bad.

With the Greensteel +3INT dagger and a +2/+3INT tome, you are looking at 32DC.

The end game CC will include area of effect, spell point conserving Web, Otto’s dancing sphere, and mass charms (via Symbol of persuasion, Mass charm monster/suggestion) – which will capture most/enough mobs. In the case of mass charms, those that are not captured, will be agro’d on the charms. With a few ongoing, extended re-casts through the dungeon instance, you can dominate most dungeons and have plenty SP to spare for red named nuking with extended+maximized+empowered WoFire/Acid fog, etc.

At level 18, I plan on taking SF: Necromancy (to boost effectiveness of the likely implemented AoE death spell: Wail of the banshee).

Just prior to leveling up to 20, I would swap out Empower (originally taken at Level15, regular feat) for either SF: Enchantment or GSF: Necromancy, and then re-select Empower as my final, meta-magic feat.

Thanks for taking the time to look at the build and offering your question/suggestion. I appreciate it.

Regards, -Daemonis.

[Impaqt]

Now I see what your talking about! Yes, Very similar to my battlestar build..... Smilar feat progression and concept for sure. a Nice greensteel Item will help shore up the umd on this build.... Personally, I dont see the point though, I find a LOT of RR WF Items darn cheap already...... and my weaponry is limited to a pair of Puncturing Light Picks.

Soloing my clerics has shown me that stealth isnt required to complete many quests..... If any.....

Enlarge or Heighten seem to be my personal debate right now for my l15 Meta.... I really have no trouble geting up close to a beholder and destructing it (Or FtS on my wiz).

My soloing seems to be more Full Frontal Assault rather than Sneaky backstab though.

[Daemonis]

Thanks Impaqt for taking the time to look at the build and to offer your comments.

I would wager that most WF Wizards do not build for UMD and it certainly isn’t expected. Your point is well taken. As you know, most other builds that work in UMD usually do so in an effort to increase self-sufficiency <insert: self-heals/restoration, etc.>. WF arcanes offer self-sufficiency nearly straight out of the creation forge - without UMD. Having said that, having a functional UMD is a luxury that the Stelemagus build will enjoy. I can pick up and use RR items and not worry. Increased flexibility. I can even do a little bit of minor Clericing on my party members in a pinch, too, just as my Sorcerer did. I anticipate that with my end-gear set-up, I should also have ~ 50&#37; chance to raise dead --- on a True Neutral WF Wizard! Although I do enjoy soloing, I also enjoy being a good teammate and contributing where/when I can. UMD affords me the opportunity to be even more versatile, as a generalist WF Wizard. In the final analysis, is UMD necessary on a WF wizard? No. Will it be a luxury? Absolutely!

I included Heighten in the Stelemagus build, as I still found heightened webs, glitterdust, hypno to be effective at end game on both my capped WF Necromancer and WF Sorcerer. If a player wants to be an efficient spell caster, one who uses a variety of CC, then heighten should be a strong consideration. Also, given that the Stelemagus build does not presently incorporate spell school focus, I wanted to have max DC possible on all my spells (to increase efficiency of casting). If your style is more of the Iconic Rock’em Sock’em Nuke’em Sorcerer, than heighten may not be as good as a fit for you.

Similarly, Enlarge is situationally useful. Unagro’d charms from afar coupled with stealth = Nice combo. E.g., Enlarged Symbol of Persuasion/Mass suggestion for domination of the dungeon instance on quests where charm is a viable option. Enlarged Flesh to stone or Web on the beholder before they even get a chance to spot/listen you. While Stelemagus will be robust at endgame (~254hp or more), and can survive a Disintegrate ray, why even give the mob a chance? Enlarge, I believe, opens many possibilities for party or soloist play. I liked having it on my previous Wizard. I also selected this feat for PvP. I’m looking forward to enlarged irresistible dance/power word stun and then tossing lumps of coal at my guildies (and taking screen shots) when we waste some time in the pits while our party fills up. Also, as you know, Enlarge also extends the reach of your primary DPS nukes, such as Scorching ray, chain lightning/ball lightning and the like.

For me, when I attempt to solo with my Wizard as I had previously with my now retired capped Sorcerer, trail blazing/zerging away, I do find that I run out of gas. For me, the ability to use Stealth helps me conserve SP on higher level of difficulty (hard/elite)/longer dungeons when I’m soloing. I personally detest recalling out for mana. Where’s the challenge or creativity in that? How far can you go, stretching that mana? Stealth, as I have gotten better at its utilization (compared to my previous arcanes who’s stealth skills were not optimized as Stelemagus) has allowed me, even at level 10 (with some dents from mishaps along the way as I’ve learned the hard way), to prevent several party wipes on quests which we were overmatched for. It’s also a new tactic that I had dabbled in before, but now that I have a build that can do it better, is something new for me, as a veteran player. A new challenge. LOL.

Re: your experience with your Clerics and stealth, I’ve perused several of your cleric builds. Most, assuming reasonable player skill, probably more than hold their own in melee, over and above having a vicious blade barrier! It’s not hard to guess where your Full Frontal Assault playstyle was forged from, LOL. And you are likely a very good veteran player with nice gear; a powerful combination.

Regards, -Daemonis.

[Naso24]

I like the build and the concept. Here's my thoughts to consider...

Have you considered taking a single level of rogue at L1? You could have a much higher UMD, or re-allocate those points you put in charisma to STR, DEX, or CON. You would have higher reflex saves. You would have many more skill points that you could splash. Your hide and move silently will be higher. You would be able to support a decent open lock/DD/search. You would have a better UMD. You would have more carrying capacity and a better reflex save (both class and stat allocation).

Your starting skill points = (2+4)x4=24. Starting as rogue = (8+4)x4=48. The 48 points would stretch farther since you are buying most skills as class skills at L1. Their cap would be that of a rogue for all other levels (LVL+3) rather than (LVL/2)+3.

I am thinking about making a similar build, but with starting stats of:

STR 12 (4 pts)
DEX 14 (6 pts)
CON 16 (6 pts)
WIS 6 (0 pts)
INT 18 (16 pts)
CHR 6 (0 pts)

You would get 1d6 sneak attack damage for melee and ranged attacks. 2 more hit points. L1 enhancements for 2 sneak damage and 15% faster sneaking. Your carrying capacity would be higher (harder to become encumbered, no need for STR on item or you could use an item with +1 or +2, i.e., +2 STR greater false life belt.

You would lose out on the L20 free feat and the first feat could not be metamagic. I would take a WF body feat for AC, best I can cast with no failure based on equipment and enhancements.

You would get your spells 1 level later. Compared to a L16 wiz, 3 instead of 4 L7 spells, 2 instead of 3 L8 spells. At L20, it should only be 1 less L9 spell per day.

Thoughts?

[Indel_Eventine]

I like the build and the concept. Here's my thoughts to consider...

Have you considered taking a single level of rogue at L1? You could have a much higher UMD, or re-allocate those points you put in charisma to STR, DEX, or CON. You would have higher reflex saves. You would have many more skill points that you could splash. Your hide and move silently will be higher. You would be able to support a decent open lock/DD/search. You would have a better UMD. You would have more carrying capacity and a better reflex save (both class and stat allocation).

Your starting skill points = (2+4)x4=24. Starting as rogue = (8+4)x4=48. The 48 points would stretch farther since you are buying most skills as class skills at L1. Their cap would be that of a rogue for all other levels (LVL+3) rather than (LVL/2)+3.

I am thinking about making a similar build, but with starting stats of:

STR 12 (4 pts)
DEX 14 (6 pts)
CON 16 (6 pts)
WIS 6 (0 pts)
INT 18 (16 pts)
CHR 6 (0 pts)

You would get 1d6 sneak attack damage for melee and ranged attacks. 2 more hit points. L1 enhancements for 2 sneak damage and 15% faster sneaking. Your carrying capacity would be higher (harder to become encumbered, no need for STR on item or you could use an item with +1 or +2, i.e., +2 STR greater false life belt.

You would lose out on the L20 free feat and the first feat could not be metamagic. I would take a WF body feat for AC, best I can cast with no failure based on equipment and enhancements.

You would get your spells 1 level later. Compared to a L16 wiz, 3 instead of 4 L7 spells, 2 instead of 3 L8 spells. At L20, it should only be 1 less L9 spell per day.

Thoughts?

Why not a bard instead of rogue?

[Daemonis]

Hi Naso,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

I have previously made a WF utility wizard, i.e., 1Rogue/rest Wizard that was enjoyable to play up until mid- to high levels. I agree that such a multi-class build does indeed offer a boost to skills such as hide, move silently, faster sneaking, UMD, and the possibility of trapsmithing to boot (at least at low to mid levels) as you cogently noted above. A modest boost to melee for your first attack until you draw agro. Better AC when it maters at low level.

I can tell you that while the trapsmithing aspects was initially a rewarding facet to my gaming experience, the novelty wore off when I was faced with traps that required Evasion+high Reflex save to evade through to reach the trap box. I also did not enjoy the slightly more limited spell selection (spells/known), the delay in learning the next tier of spells (learning new spells on even levels just like a Sorcerer), loss of precious spell points (even larger SP discrepancy vis-Ã*-vis a Sorcerer; at least 89 or more SP behind pure class Wizard), and 2 (eventually 3 at level 20) less feats that I could spend to bolster my wizardry efficiency/effectiveness. The later two points are perhaps the biggest thing in my mind why I wanted to stay pure with this build.

Assuming Mental toughness I & II, Spell penetration I & II, I wanted ALL the SP I can muster to power ALL the essential Wizard metamagics I use (i.e., extend, heighten, maximize). I also wanted all the soloist/PvP feats, including Quicken, Enlarge, and Empower.
1) Quicken offers near immortality and fast casting as long as you have SP.
2) Enlarge offers the ability to control the gaming environment easier via long-distance instakills, CC, and nukes. Truly a sniper, striking from a distance.
3) Maximum possible nuke damage (having both Max +Empowered metamagics) for Endboss encounters and in PvP.

Frankly, a max INT Wizard has more than enough skill points to allocate too. I will also tell you, after capping my Stelemagus (inspiration for the build template), once you have learned the nuance of how to sneak - a player skill that is acquired (along with skill point allocation, some DEX, and good equipment), the build performs quite well in the stealth department.
-----------------------------------------
In summary, you will need to decide if the boost to stealth skills (which probably isn’t necessary), UMD (which is great, but not absolutely essential on a self-healing WF), low- to mid- level trapsmithing, very modest initial sneak attack damage, WF body feat (to promote survival at low level, but has diminishing returns as only very high AC truly matters at end game) is worth the loss of a modest amount of SP, 2 (eventually 3) feats, slower spell level attainment, and reduced selection of higher ends spells (especially 6 & 7’s) at the current level cap.

Final thought: I would argue that if one were seriously going to splash Rogue, then go 2 levels of Rogue, rest Wizard to take advantage of Evasion+Insightful Reflexes feats for added survivability and better trapsmithing owing to the ability to evade through traps at mid- to end game. There are some Rogue2/14Wizard build ideas on the Wizard forums that looked good.

Good luck with your build! Enjoy!

Regards, -Daemonis.

[GeneralDiomedes]

Soloing my clerics has shown me that stealth isnt required to complete many quests..... If any.....

My soloing seems to be more Full Frontal Assault rather than Sneaky backstab though.

It isn't .. but I must say the devs seem to be quite good at building quests that are completable by a variety of methods.

[oronisi]

Note1: End game UMD (assuming 18CHA, greater heroism, and Golden Cartouche) = 20. Enough to wand whip the incapacitated party Cleric off the floor or equip most RR gear in the game. UMD will go higher with better gear.

If half of your reason for wanting UMD is to be able to wand wip an incapped cleric, you can simply use GH. The temporary HP from GH will bring him back up.

Otherwise, I love my WF wiz. I would love him even more if he had hide and move silently maxxed out.

[GeneralDiomedes]

If half of your reason for wanting UMD is to be able to wand wip an incapped cleric, you can simply use GH. The temporary HP from GH will bring him back up.

Otherwise, I love my WF wiz. I would love him even more if he had hide and move silently maxxed out.

yeah .. and UMD 20 isn't enough for endgame RR stuff. By that time you will be finding better non-RR stuff.

[Daemonis]

Hello folks,
Thanks for taking the time to look at the build and offer your critiques and comments. I appreciate it.

The main reason for the UMD is to equip end-game RR items and minor Clericing for my teammates when my guildies and I short man quests when a Cleric isn’t on board.

On my XP capped Stelemagus, my UMD is currently sitting at:
9Base
3Goldencartouche
4Charisma
4GH
2Head of good fortune
2Greensteelbracers of CO, Tier 2 at the moment.
_____
24

--> Which is more than enough to equip any RR item in the game that I've come across, use various remove-status effect wands and whip a cure moderate wounds wand. Raise dead on a roll of 12 or better. My UMD will be 27 when I obtain my final upgrade for my Greensteel bracers, and peak at 29/30 if I can ever get my 7-Fingered gloves from the Titan Raid and a +2CHA tome.

As I’ve discussed in previous post, the UMD isn’t critical for a self-healing WF Arcane build. However, it is a luxury that I do enjoy and it helps me to be even more versatile in my game play – and a better teammate.

Regards, -Daemonis.

[WeaselKing]

Don't die Stelemagus thread, bump.

[efreet5]

Besides for wand whipping a downed cleric/rr items why umd? An interesting but little known fact among casters is that you can get an incapped party member up by casting rage/greater heroism on them, the bonus hitpoints gained from these spells are equal to or greater than 10. No wand whipping needed.

[alchilito]

Besides for wand whipping a downed cleric/rr items why umd? An interesting but little known fact among casters is that you can get an incapped party member up by casting rage/greater heroism on them, the bonus hitpoints gained from these spells are equal to or greater than 10. No wand whipping needed.

I took maxed out UMD on my pure WF wizzy and it is really nice having a chance at casting full heals and raise dead scrolls (once the uber gear has been acquired). Not to mention that as it is right now, no one really knows what the maxed out theoretical UMD will be (no one knows what the next 7 fingered gloves will be).

[MrCow]

why umd?

Race restricted gear and the ability to heal people past temporary hit points.

[Lewcipher]

Looks good and fun, but why is this your second to last build?

[~DraconisOrion]

So for this build going out to level 20 (on a new server) what enhancements/feats/spells would you take now with Mod9 out?

I'm doing my first WF toon, and my first Wiz in 3 yrs (I was on hiatus due to real life).

Thanks in advance!


**Edit**
Oh I plan to go pure Wiz the full 20 levels....was thinking maybe Sorc, but I think I should relearn the spells and spell combat first.

I play on a new server now, so not a large AH of items and not very many high levels.

[ImaginaryLogic]

can someone please show me a 28 pt wizard build?

[Delacroix21]

If your capped Wiz has plenty of gear farmed for the years that you have played him, why not TR him into this build?


You get an extra spell pen feat for free (+2 spell pen) and access to a feat that grants +1 to spell DCs. Seems like a great option.