Force of Personality

[Stealthbr]

Hello all! I would like to know if Force of Personality and Divine Grace stack. Thanks for the help!

[Impaqt]

Yes, but if your will save really needs to be fixed that much your build may have other significant issues.

Theres no reason a Paly cant have a 30ish Will Save without FoP.

[captain1z]

Hello all! I would like to know if Force of Personality and Divine Grace stack. Thanks for the help!

1st hand knowledge = YES


My saves are 40/36/42 at 15th level pali splashed with fighter and force of personality

as Ive said before..... this feat is the Zoolander "Magnum" of DDO (excessive yes I know and yes I know a 1 always fails)

[Stealthbr]

Its a fighter13/3paladin and I either will pick FoP or Iron will. Looks like its FoP though ^^

[Blazer]

Gonna have to take the same slant as Impaqt here. Since you splashed pally through level 3 for Divine Grace and Fear/Disease Immunity, I have to ask why you feel the need to spend a feat to boost your Will save. You should be near or greater than 20 Will save before GH, unless your CHA is not up to snuff. Isn't there anything else you can spend this feat on? Unless you want some insane Will save for PvP?

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Ido have to agree here... Force of Personality seems like a "Win More" type of feat to me for most Paladin Builds. With 18-20 Charisma, and just 10 Wisdom and decent equipment, a Fighter/Paladin should be able to hit 16-20 Will Save with Greater Heroism. This is good enough for 95% of the content in the game. Yes, pumping to a 30 or 40 Will Save is nice, but you still fail on a 1... and even with "only" 20 Will Save, you have a MUCH better Will Save than any other Melee Class (save the Battle Cleric)... and even if you fail a save on a 2 or 3, you are 90% sure to make your next Save.

Too many Paladins focus too much on the Will Save, and allow their Offense or their Utility to slack. Think about Power Attack, or Khopesh, or IC: Piercing (for Banishers and Puncturing), or SF:UMD, or Weapon Focus.... not your Will Save.

[Stealthbr]

I wont go SF: UMD due to my skill points being extremely limited to only one skill pt per lvl. As a fighter, I have tons of offensive feats including Cleave, Great Cleave, Greater wep spec, greater wep focus, imp crit, PA, toughness, etc. I am not specialized to be a tact. dwarf so I will not pick up feats like stunning blow. The only feat line I can see being useful to me is the Shield Mastery/Imp. Shield Mastery.

[rimble]

Gonna have to take the same slant as Impaqt here. Since you splashed pally through level 3 for Divine Grace and Fear/Disease Immunity, I have to ask why you feel the need to spend a feat to boost your Will save. You should be near or greater than 20 Will save before GH, unless your CHA is not up to snuff. Isn't there anything else you can spend this feat on? Unless you want some insane Will save for PvP?

Whelp, you can tank your Wisdom (8), never worry about a +Wisdom item (frees up a slot), and then never worry about failing a Will save (except on a 1). I thought it was worthwhile for my psuedo-Batman build. For a pure Paladin that needs to have at least a 14 Wisdom, it's probably not so good. Having some Fighter levels and those extra Feats makes it a pretty cheap choice to pick up.

[Blazer]

I wont go SF: UMD due to my skill points being extremely limited to only one skill pt per lvl. As a fighter, I have tons of offensive feats including Cleave, Great Cleave, Greater wep spec, greater wep focus, imp crit, PA, toughness, etc. I am not specialized to be a tact. dwarf so I will not pick up feats like stunning blow. The only feat line I can see being useful to me is the Shield Mastery/Imp. Shield Mastery.

One skill point per lvl tells me 8 INT, which means no Imp. Trip which was something I was going to suggest. Oh well.

Stunning Blow is pretty decent feat, and for 3 APs, you can add a couple points to the DC via enhancements.

I'm guessing since you mentioned SM/ISM, you're a sword/board style fighter; if this is not the case, what is your fighting style? What race are you? If you're halfling or elf, dragonmarks might be a decent thing to look into for healing or displacement (respectively).

While we're at it, what is your Will save now, without taking FoP? Honestly, if you're already in the mid-teens, you're fine.

[Blazer]

Whelp, you can tank your Wisdom (8), never worry about a +Wisdom item (frees up a slot), and then never worry about failing a Will save (except on a 1). I thought it was worthwhile for my psuedo-Batman build. For a pure Paladin that needs to have at least a 14 Wisdom, it's probably not so good. Having some Fighter levels and those extra Feats makes it a pretty cheap choice to pick up.

I suppose, but I'm guessing the OP's character didn't tank WIS and I only say this because unless this char was just rolled and lvled quickly, it was probably built before FoP was even a thought in the dev's head. I guess that's a good question for the OP:

What kind of stats/will save are you sporting right now, pre-FoP?

[Stealthbr]

The thing is, I rolled my dwarf fighter with 2 points used up on Wisdom at creation. I was also planning on using a Wisdom item. So with the comming of FoP, I would gain 1 more item slot and more saves than I would if I picked up Iron Will. I will re-roll him (hes only lvl 5).

At 16, he has a base of 9 Will, +5 protection item, +4 GH, +3 from a +6 Cha Item, +1 Cha enhancement + Cha Tome, +4 Dwarven Spell Defence/Dwarf Spell Save Bonus.

Basically, 26 Will Save with GH and no Wisdom item.

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

The thing is, I rolled my dwarf fighter with 2 points used up on Wisdom at creation. I was also planning on using a Wisdom item. So with the comming of FoP, I would gain 1 more item slot and more saves than I would if I picked up Iron Will. I will re-roll him (hes only lvl 5).

At 16, he has a base of 9 Will, +5 protection item, +4 GH, +3 from a +6 Cha Item, +1 Cha enhancement + Cha Tome, +4 Dwarven Spell Defence/Dwarf Spell Save Bonus.

Basically, 26 Will Save with GH and no Wisdom item.

Stealthbr, 26 Will Save is MORE than sufficient for all but the most Elite quests in the game. You will always fail a Will Save on a 1, no matter if your Will Save was +100.... Yes FoP might add a few points to get that over 30, but it's really not worth it. 26 Will Save (and counting GH is fine, since it is almost always running nowadays) is fine. Focus on your DPS or Utility or Turtle-ing... your Will Save is fine!

[Rizo]

Stealthbr, 26 Will Save is MORE than sufficient for all but the most Elite quests in the game. You will always fail a Will Save on a 1, no matter if your Will Save was +100.... Yes FoP might add a few points to get that over 30, but it's really not worth it. 26 Will Save (and counting GH is fine, since it is almost always running nowadays) is fine. Focus on your DPS or Utility or Turtle-ing... your Will Save is fine!

FoP is pretty mathematically correct to take on any 10+ fighter / 2+ Pally. Fighter tanks your will save so bad. With full buffs, and FoP, my 10/4/2 has 27 will save. Im a active PvP'er, but even without being so, Id probally take FoP. Hate having less the 21 in a save.

[Stealthbr]

Well, I decided I won't take FoP since people are telling me its not required to have 30+ will save on pretty much any DDO quest. I will either go with Power Critical or Shield Mastery. Btw, I can get a max of 28 with GH on.

10 Base
1 Luck of heroes
3 Cha Stat Item
1 Wis Tome
5 Resistance Item
4 Greater Heroism
4 Dwarven Enhancements