new to sorc

[Vesuvia]

An unrelated point, for the OP: a lot of people will swear by heighten, I personally don't find it all that useful except for web. Which I haven't carried in ages. Just note that while some will say you must have X, Y, and Z feats, not everyone agrees.

I agree to this to an extent. Although heighten for sorc's was much more needed for PK when we were stuck with dancing ball only in reaver duties and didn't pack FoD. Now we do have FoD it's not needed nearly as much, although still heightening it for another 5 sp for +1 DC isn't all that bad either. If I had to drop something for something else...if there was something I really wanted...it would be heighten or improved mental toughness (but man I do love my SP) !

[CSFurious]

is to get your umd up +4

believe me i have stood there watching while a sor goes thru the ritual (equipping the right items, etc.) of getting ready for the raise, i laughed out loud

For starters, GH doesn't require a UMD check from a sorc. And your calculation of a sorc's UMD capabilities are off. Mine uses rez scrolls without fail and rarely fails a heal scroll.

An unrelated point, for the OP: a lot of people will swear by heighten, I personally don't find it all that useful except for web. Which I haven't carried in ages. Just note that while some will say you must have X, Y, and Z feats, not everyone agrees.

[Yajerman01]

i have a sorc who has vested many skill points into UMD - i wear a few items that are bypassed with UMD and there have been a number of times when I have pugged that someone has died - sometimes the cleric where I had to raise them. I get rather decent deals from vendors without vesting too much into haggle and I am currently working on my own hagglebot for optimum pricing.

I have met 1 sorc who didn't have UMD and have never seen that toon since.

IMO UMD is essential; Sometimes i get into bad groups where I have to expend more SP then normal which translates into becoming just an extra body that is limited in assisting. I know that if comes down to it I can help out as a backup healer assissting the cleric on expenditures while i either wand or scroll heal. TO me, knowing that I can help out the team in other ways makes my toon more versatile and makes me feel more of a team player. Fortunately I havent been in too many groups where that has been laid upon me, but I can honestly say that if it is called upon me, I have no problem doing it. Thast just yet another important factor to UMD.

[Aspenor]

is plus FOUR to skills.

[philo]

is to get your umd up +2

believe me i have stood there watching while a sor goes thru the ritual (equipping the right items, etc.) of getting ready for the raise, i laughed out loud

sigh really? GH increases skills by 4...

[Vesuvia]

is to get your umd up +2

believe me i have stood there watching while a sor goes thru the ritual (equipping the right items, etc.) of getting ready for the raise, i laughed out loud

Um its +4 and I'm glad you laughed out loud because you were standing there being worthless doing nothing, and at least he was contributing.

[philo]

is plus FOUR to skills.

Asp is a quicker forum troll then I am ;/

[Aspenor]

Asp is a quicker forum troll then I am ;/

and i even trudged out in the snow between posts and cleaned off my car. huzzah!

[CSFurious]

i cannot remember being in a group where if the cleric was dead there was not a party wipe

if your cleric dies, the group is probably either overmatched or not very good to start IMO

i always roll with bards & rogues who use raise dead scrolls so i guess i have never really encountered any sors who raised the dead

i guess if i did not play with clerics, bards, & rogues that i would be gimped with no umd

but, since i play with lots of clerics, bards & rogues, i think i am ok since i do not need umd while i am playing with them or even soloing

Yes laugh because gimping yourself is awesome!

I feel sorry for your groups when your cleric dies.

[CSFurious]

i am addicted to good hope with my bard

no, i was reading my playboy

Um its +4 and I'm glad you laughed out loud because you were standing there being worthless doing nothing, and at least he was contributing.

[Aspenor]

i cannot remember being in a group where if the cleric was dead there was not a party wipe

Then you are obviously playing with people that don't know how to be self sufficient and depend on a nannycleric. How sad.

[Vesuvia]

Honestly the only bards I play with are battle bards, and generally don't group with rogues as I see them as mostly unneeded for any reason. Now letting a rogue guildie or friend come along is one thing, but I'd much rather have another tank/cleric/sorc in that spot instead. Bah, clerics die all the time and parties don't wipe. Some people make squishy clerics or are to busy healing others to heal themselves, and this doesnt mean the party was over matched, this could be as simple as a nasty trap crunchin your cleric then what? =)

[Yajerman01]

if your cleric dies, the group is probably either overmatched or not very good to start IMO

HEY CS, you should use the excerpt above as your new sig!

Very insightful!

[Vesuvia]

I have decided you sir are a Noob also and shouldnt be giving build advice. You should instead go back to page one and follow my post on how to build an effective sorcerer. I am done.

[philo]

i cannot remember being in a group where if the cleric was dead there was not a party wipe

that says alot right there...that basically sums it up. I didnt realize there were people on any server that would make that comment...

and sorry elric69 for all of us forum trolls derailing your thread.

The moral of this thread is you should take UMD or you might end up in reroll denial like that guy

[Oreg]

Putting 6 man groups aside for a second. Having high umd has allowed me and friends to 2-3 man vale quests with almost any group makeup. Heal scrolls to supplement pots, restoration scrolls, raise dead scrolls, all pretty much failing on a 1 only.

A sorc becomes more versatile and more valuable with umd. Name one other skill that can help so much.

For light armor wearers like myself there is an added bonus - seven fingered gloves are always on because of the arcane spell failure, head of good fortune is on 90% of the time (Kardin's eye te rest of the time). GH is on myself 100% of the time. So I am not taking any time to change out equipment before i cast from a scroll or wand.

[CSFurious]

first, i think you say some very insightful things

however, you then talk about traps crunching your cleric & after you that you tell us that you do not play with rogues

do you see the problem there?

anyway, any well-played spellsinger or warchanter is of tremendous benefit to any group

the same applies to rogues & i am not talking about the squishy ones who die all the time & just come out from the back when there is a trap to disable, i am talking about a rogue who can dps with the best of them & plays smart

i min-max to a certain extent, but i always think that the ideal party make-up consists of a cleric, a bard, a rogue, a sor & two other melee types (sometimes insert another arcane caster here), that is how i have fun while playing the game

Honestly the only bards I play with are battle bards, and generally don't group with rogues as I see them as mostly unneeded for any reason. Now letting a rogue guildie or friend come along is one thing, but I'd much rather have another tank/cleric/sorc in that spot instead. Bah, clerics die all the time and parties don't wipe. Some people make squishy clerics or are to busy healing others to heal themselves, and this doesnt mean the party was over matched, this could be as simple as a nasty trap crunchin your cleric then what? =)

[Aspenor]

that says alot right there...that basically sums it up. I didnt realize there were people on any server that would make that comment...

and sorry elric69 for all of us forum trolls derailing your thread.

The moral of this thread is you should take UMD or you might end up in reroll denial like that guy

May I take this moment to be ashamed of my server

I never knew this point of view existed. It surely cannot be found in any guild I run with.

[CSFurious]

i completely agree

but, my question to you is, "why are you doing these quests with only 2 to 3 players in your group?"

why not just invite a cleric, bard or rogue along? there are plenty of them that would love to play with you & your friends

Putting 6 man groups aside for a second. Having high umd has allowed me and friends to 2-3 man vale quests with almost any group makeup. Heal scrolls to supplement pots, restoration scrolls, raise dead scrolls, all pretty much failing on a 1 only.

A sorc becomes more versatile and more valuable with umd. Name one other skill that can help so much.

For light armor wearers like myself there is an added bonus - seven fingered gloves are always on because of the arcane spell failure, head of good fortune is on 90% of the time (Kardin's eye te rest of the time). GH is on myself 100% of the time. So I am not taking any time to change out equipment before i cast from a scroll or wand.

[Aspenor]

i min-max to a certain extent, but i always think that the ideal party make-up consists of a cleric, a bard, a rogue, a sor & two other melee types (sometimes insert another arcane caster here), that is how i have fun while playing the game

And how often do you find yourself in this "ideal" party?

As noted above by other posters, UMD makes a character more versatile. I have run in 6 sorc parties through the vale content on elite with no issues. I have also run with in makeups like 3 sorc, 1 barb, 2 rangers, or 2 sorc, 1 wiz, a rogue, 2 barbs and a ranger.

You seem to have this very narrowminded view of party roles that pigeonholes you into a place where you can do nothing but cast arcane spells to help your party.