Help me build a 28 Pt Fighter with AC in mind.

[Snoggy]

Pure fighters are no longer king of the hill, as they were in pre-raid loot and 28-point land. It was optimized when you built it, but the game has changed drastically since.

According to these forums any kind of defensive build is less than optimal in the current environment. That includes anything and everything remotely related to the paladin class, splash or full on committment.

According to these froums, DPS is the only thing that counts in melee. So you probably should be advising the poster to build a Perma-Raged Barbarian, since it's a pretty cookie-cutter build that even 28 point builds can manage with ease.

I mean, we do want to be "optimal" don't we?

[Riot]

I find it ironic that you want to "optimize for today", but are not sugesting he get 1750 and restart with a 32 point build.

I also find it ironic you want him "optimize for today", and then with the same breath thwart his ability to join a guild or have skills or friends.

I mean really,,, is it that difficult to find a good guild?

And for the record I did not sugest a Riott tank per se. I recall sugesting straight paladin, since according to you, 2 years experience and a good guild seem out of reach. You want to survive and contribute? Straight Paladin FTW.

You continue to mock this build as out of date.... Why is it I seem to perform upto and above expectations in multiple phases of the game? And if your answer is 2 years, skill, or guild then does not everyone have that same opportunity? Or did I win the lottery?
Or maybe I'm the greatest DDO player that ever lved, sincve my build is so out of date and gimped.... which is it?

or maybe it's because it's a solid build? just maybe?

I think the tables are a bit turned. I think you are more in love with your Paladin Splash than I am with a straight fighter.

Basically, you'd suggest he start with a build from an environment that no longer exists, and have to equip himself over time to make up the gaps. I'd suggest he just build a modern build and have less of that to deal with.

So now your Paladin splash requires NO gear at all to make up gaps?
I submit to you that the Riott build has no "gaps". Gear makes us all better. I'm not the paladin who doesn't take Wisdom remember.

Time is the key... Do you expect DDO to remain as it is right now at this moment?
When I built this build it was with the expectation of Change. Part of the stregth of this build is it's versatility. And as the Game changes it adapts. I've changed Feats and Enhancements with the times to adapts to the curent game. That's why I have 2 years worth of gear. Because the build was able to survive the changes.... Lets talk about a troves of Batmen that are shelved due to the armor restriction on Evasion....

I guess we jsut need to agree to disagree at this point...

There's not much left to discuss....

Riott out.

[Hadrian]

According to these forums any kind of defensive build is less than optimal in the current environment. That includes anything and everything remotely related to the paladin class, splash or full on committment.

According to these froums, DPS is the only thing that counts in melee. So you probably should be advising the poster to build a Perma-Raged Barbarian, since it's a pretty cookie-cutter build that even 28 point builds can manage with ease.

I mean, we do want to be "optimal" don't we?

The context of what I am saying is that the beneficial enhancements and feats for fighters cut off at level 12. You can take any fighter-only feat that there is at level 12 fighter. That's the maximum requirement for a fighter feat. The only enhancement you can take post level 13 fighter is fighter's action boost 2.

If you cut out these levels that offer you little for 2-3 levels of other classes that offer you useful effects and abilities, you get a more versitile and complete build.

You continue to mock this build as out of date.... Why is it I seem to perform upto and above expectations in multiple phases of the game? And if your answer is 2 years, skill, or guild then does not everyone have that same opportunity? Or did I win the lottery?
Or maybe I'm the greatest DDO player that ever lved, sincve my build is so out of date and gimped.... which is it?

or maybe it's because it's a solid build? just maybe?

I have not mocked you. We can agree that the game is different than it was 2 years ago. We can agree that those of us who have played since then have learned a great deal about building characters that we did not know two years ago. We can agree that it's possible to apply that knowledge today to improve upon old build concepts.

I have shown how the numbers give him higher standing AC and saves while he loses nothing that you have on Riott. He can take exactly the same feats minus the saving throw oriented feats. I have shown how this actually grants him higher saves, espcecially on the weakest of the three saves.

I think the tables are a bit turned. I think you are more in love with your Paladin Splash than I am with a straight fighter.

This would make sense if I was suggesting something that resembled my 10/3/3 dwarf rather than slight modifications to your build that grant it only benefits.

So now your Paladin splash requires NO gear at all to make up gaps?
I submit to you that the Riott build has no "gaps". Gear makes us all better. I'm not the paladin who doesn't take Wisdom remember.

My question to you was why you'd suggest that he start off with a build that was designed for an environment that is gone. If he took the paladin splash, he could reproduce your build exactly with higher saves and AC. You're fighting hard to make that a negative.

You have adjusted your build over time to the new environment with a selection of items that this player will likely never match. DDO is all about items, but that doesn't mean that he should ingore two years of knowledge of game changes just because he'll need to get "items" anyway. He can still benefit from the items he gets when he gets them, and he can still benefit from his higher saves and AC when he has those items. It will not be a negative to build a modern intimitank.

I guess we jsut need to agree to disagree at this point...

There's not much left to discuss....

Riott out.

We have not had any discussion yet. You keep playing down the advantages of the splash as inconsequential. You don't lose anything for them. You don't gain anything for avoiding them. You have the option to copy Riott's enhancements and feats (minus the save feats) or make adjustments to Riott that are not open to him because he's a pure fighter.

That makes the splash the more versitile of the two.

[Sydril]

Theres a lot of interesting points in this thread. You can certainly make a 28 build for ac rather easily and make him effective on most normal and hard content. Elite is another story. I recently respecced my umd fighter (pure fighter with a good spread of ability scores) to work in a high ac. I'm currently at 48 (could kick it to 50 with a couple other easily attained items) and have been soloing the vale without difficulty at level 14 (as a pure fighter), mostly using a weakening scimitar of enfeebling but a wide range of other weapons as well. An AC in the low 50s is nothing to sneeze at. Getting to that next level with a few raid items and mithril gear is like getting a ride on the space shuttle though. Not too many people get to see real space, but a lot of people fly up there pretty high on commercial airliners.

If you are thinking of making an ac tank and you dont have the resources. Just go for it. If you like the playstyle getting that gear will be a very nice carrot to keep you occupied for a long time.

(edit) Just a note. I never really looked too closely at riot's tank build but having just looked at the build noted in his sig the fighter I mentioned above is basically a riot build. 32 pointer with much better wis and cha but overall its your basic riot build.