Drow vs 28pt Human?

[Khurse]

Hi all
Returning to the game after a few months abscence, figured since I've pretty much forgotten what little I knew I'd reroll.
(My highest is only lvl 8 anyway)

Apparently I managed to unlock drow, but not 32 pt builds. Starting a new Sorc- is there any <game> reason at all to choose a 28pt human over a Drow? I know the human gets an extra feat at start, but it seems..lacking compared to the higher Chr, Spell resist, bonus to saves, etc that Drow get.
Not 100% sure I'd go Drow (really don't think I'm fond of the elf models the game uses) , just kinda curious if there's anything humans get as a bonus (other than the extra feat) that I'm missing.


BTW- should be on another thread, but I seem to have some cakes that summon a genie (they were just given out I believe)- anyone know how they work? Does the +1 to a stat work the same way as the tomes? (Tomes that I don't have and can't afford..have cake though...) So if I use a +1 for CHr, I don't have to worry about finding a + 1 CHR tome later?

[Qzipoun]

If you do not have 32pt builds then drow is the way to go. Even WITH 32pt builds many (most?) people prefer drows over humans for casters.

In terms of the cake genie, he essentially gives you a +1 tome of your choice. His bonus is the same as a tome bonus (inherent) and hence will not stack with a tome.

[Arianrhod]

In terms of the cake genie, he essentially gives you a +1 tome of your choice. His bonus is the same as a tome bonus (inherent) and hence will not stack with a tome.

However, depending on how fast you expect to get 1750 favor, you might choose to spend it on another stat than charisma, since the +2 tome will overwrite any +1 tome you may have already used. Of course, if you expect to take many months to get to 1750 (many of us do), having that +1 to charisma in the meantime can be nice.

[Aspenor]

I have a 28 pt human that makes most drow look like sissies.

[rimble]

I have a 28 pt human that makes most drow look like sissies.

I can see that. Although I am working on a Drow Sorcerer right now, the biggest problem I have is that there isn't a single Drow Enhancement that is interesting to me. I suppose, maybe, Spell Resistance, but I haven't been raising it. Humans don't offer much to a Sorcerer either, but Human Versatility for those Raise Dead scrolls, and maybe even Improved Recovery, could be quite useful. I certainly could find a use for that extra Feat too (and +2 Con).

Crud, now I wish I made him Human. Not worth all that just for +1 Cha. I demand a Race respec!

[Solmage]

It's all a matter of perspective. How much would people pay if they could buy the Reaver's Napkin, a highly sought-after item that raises all DCs by +1? Answer: a ton in plat. Well, the drow already gives you +1 to all spells, and a bit more mana, not to mention it will also stack with said napkin.

Another way of looking at it is this: The human gives you 1 free feat, the drow gives you 8 free spell focus feats.

They also give you the chance to get decent reflex saves, which is a sorc weakness. (16 dex + 2 dex enhancements +6 items = decent reflex) A 'decent' 28 pt. drow stat placement would could be '16 dex, 12 con, 20 cha' everything else tanked. Spend a feat in force of personality so that you use your cha for will saves, and you'll have a very capable caster with decent hps and decent reflex saves.

A more radical approach that is neat except for the fact he burns up two feats instead of one: 16 INT, 12 con, 20 cha, everyone else tanked. Then you take the feat that uses your int for your reflex too and jack that up with a +6 item and tomes. The benefit over the above is more skill points, and being able to hit int runes as well as cha runes. The downside? One burnt feat.

Since you're a high DC caster, consider spending a low level feat or two in spell focus conjuration to make your niacs deadly and your webs very very reliable. A cheap low level conjuration item also helps. You can then swap them out at higher levels.

Anyway, I hope you enjoy your little caster.

[toord]

What is the max CHA a human sorc (28pt) can get? No items, no enhancements, no tomes, etc.
What is the max CHA a drow sorc (28pt) can get? No items, no enhancements, no tomes, etc.


/* Slightly off topic */
How's Human Versatility allowing you to use Rezz scrolls? At lvl 15, I have HV I and HV II trained and have only a 25% chance of using Rez scrolls successfully. Which is why I will reset my action points and use those for elemental crit multiplier instead since I have src CHA I, II, and III and Human CHA I trained (plus all three spell pen enhancements).

Peace.

[rimble]

What is the max CHA a human sorc (28pt) can get? No items, no enhancements, no tomes, etc.
What is the max CHA a drow sorc (28pt) can get? No items, no enhancements, no tomes, etc.

Human, 18 Base + 1 Human Enhancement + 4 Levels + 3 Sorcerer Enhancement + 2 (3) Tome + 6 (9) Item = 34 (38)
Drow, 20 Base + 4 Levels + 3 Sorcerer Enhancement + 2 (3) Tome + 6 (9) Item = 35 (39)

It fluctuates as you level, and it depends on your gear at end game, but it's easier for the Drow to be ahead. Depending on how Tomes, Items, and Enhancements work out at end game, that Drow +1 Cha might not matter...it depends if at the very max the Drow can make it to that next even number or not.

/* Slightly off topic */
How's Human Versatility allowing you to use Rezz scrolls? At lvl 15, I have HV I and HV II trained and have only a 25% chance of using Rez scrolls successfully. Which is why I will reset my action points and use those for elemental crit multiplier instead since I have src CHA I, II, and III and Human CHA I trained (plus all three spell pen enhancements).

You could try this thread to see how some Sorcerers are getting their UMD checks up high, adding +5 via Human Versatility IV when you really need to succeed can really help:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=135911

[Desteria]

My first and still main guy(er girl) is a 28 pt human sorc.

End game they can get the same Cha BTu it takes mroe work IE have ot have a +3 tome and spend 2 more Ap's

Hit points, My sorc now has 254 unbuffed not counting new raid HP items, that comapres well with some rangers and a Lto of clerics less squish is good, A big part of this is Human Second stat being CON.

Humans get an Extra Feat Atm i have: Extend, Highten, Max, Emp, Spell Pen, Gtr Spell pen, skill focus UMD(no fail heal scrolls rocks with needing a boost). After a few mroe levels for skill points the skill focus will go bakc to metal toughness as it is i WAtn mroe feats i;d have a hard tiem giving them up.

In the end it depends on what you want, the drow will always have a +1 can max over the human in the end end game this may wall mean 40 vr 39 and +1 Dc's atm it does not.

Both area very good Human area much mroe durable.

How clsoe to 32pt builds are you? if your close maby a little faction work and a 32pt human would give you the best fop both worlds.

[MrWizard]

Apparently I managed to unlock drow, but not 32 pt builds. Starting a new Sorc- is there any <game> reason at all to choose a 28pt human over a Drow? I know the human gets an extra feat at start, but it seems..lacking compared to the higher Chr, Spell resist, bonus to saves, etc that Drow get.

Humans get 4 extra skill points and one extra feat at creation I believe.
Drow start 2 points higher on intel and charisma, which make the MAX stat on those two at creation 20, and not 18.

The big thing for me was the max stat for DC. Starting him at 20 charisma for my sorc and not 18.
Drow have a lower strength and con I believe, which eat up stat points to raise em.

Humans get human versatitlity (up to +5 on tons of things for a limited time)

Drow get some immunities and such...and are thin.

The 2 points higher charisma get you one to the DC when casting spells that use it. Also gets you about 25 extra spell points at 16 th level.

Not much of a difference, but some people think it is rad, others can live without it.

32 pt builds versus 28 pt are not really that much different. The max stat is 18 usually and no matter how many points you get, you still max at 18 at creation (except where things like drow stat pluses apply)

THe extra 4 points can bring up a stat one or two points if they are low (like 8) but do not do much really.

Can't wait to get 6 +3 tomes to start a monk...32 build...that would be awesome...a 50 point build.

[Pyromaniac]

I think most people have covered off the differences:

Drow - Better DCs, higher cha by 1

Human - More HP, Extra Feat, Human Versatility (for UMD), ability to up 2 different stats by +1 each, More Skill points

[twix]

Screw that make a wf sorc I love mine for the most part 308 hp and can full heal himself and use rez scrolls .Sure my cha is less but it was well worth it to use a spell for my heals.If i make another sorc it would deffintly be human.But then again i cant stand drow so..

[Khurse]

Thanks All!

Have decided to go human. (Don't get me wrong, it's not a "for the challenge" thing,I just don't like the elf models in the game)
Have starting stats of
Str 8
Dex 8
Con 15
Int 12
Wis 8
Chr 18

Now I notice there's a feat that lets you use CHR Bonus for Will saves- Are there alot of will saves? (Enough so that I should spend my free feat on them?) Seem to remember getting held alot when I played before, otoh I'm sure extend and MT would be useful also.

[Pyromaniac]

I picked up the will save feat, though not till lvl 15/16 ish

[Desteria]

Thanks All!

Have decided to go human. (Don't get me wrong, it's not a "for the challenge" thing,I just don't like the elf models in the game)
Have starting stats of
Str 8
Dex 8
Con 15
Int 12
Wis 8
Chr 18

Now I notice there's a feat that lets you use CHR Bonus for Will saves- Are there alot of will saves? (Enough so that I should spend my free feat on them?) Seem to remember getting held alot when I played before, otoh I'm sure extend and MT would be useful also.

I would strongly suggest droping the int to 10 and rasing con to 16
As a human You will still get 3 skill points a level and that realyl shoudl be enough con/UMD and you have left over to use in somethign else, I think in the long run1 mroe hp per levle will be a bigegr benifit then 1 mroe skill point a level.

[Oreg]

Yep, drop the Int to 10.

[Faptastic]

I have a 28 pt human that makes most drow look like sissies.

At least Drow don't look like they have a pineapple jammed into their nether regions when they run... )

[Aspenor]

At least Drow don't look like they have a pineapple jammed into their nether regions when they run... )

No, but they look like total fruit-loops when they dance.

[Heladron]

Now I notice there's a feat that lets you use CHR Bonus for Will saves- Are there alot of will saves? (Enough so that I should spend my free feat on them?) Seem to remember getting held alot when I played before, otoh I'm sure extend and MT would be useful also.

There are a lot of will saves, but there are a couple schools of thought. One says hold out for heroism and GH, protection from evil or magic circle against evil, remove fear pots and resistance items, etc. The other says take the feat or keep stats from pulling your saves negative.

Personally I hate gimping on saves, but both are valid and you'll have to decide where you stand on the matter.

[Aspenor]

There are a lot of will saves, but there are a couple schools of thought. One says hold out for heroism and GH, protection from evil or magic circle against evil, remove fear pots and resistance items, etc. The other says take the feat or keep stats from pulling your saves negative.

Personally I hate gimping on saves, but both are valid and you'll have to decide where you stand on the matter.

Since the devs failed to implement the staple spell Mind Blank, I went with force of personality. 31 unbuffed will save is nothing to shake a stick at.