Light hammers should be x3 crits

[DNDJESS]

I am actually thinking that when monk comes out I may go with the quarterstaff because it is a monk weapon and has a great attack speed.. The dreamspitter could be really fun with the negative levels going off like crazy in a monk's hands..

I have a banishing quarterstaff on one of my characters, and I'm saving that for monks, incase they actually have feats that make it worth using.

[DNDJESS]

Flat-out wrong. A barbarian with identical clubs and quarterstaves would do +14 damage per hit using the staff.

First of all, if I group with a Barbarian who is deciding between a club and a quarterstaff for damage, one of us isn't going to be in the group for long. No self-respecting Barbarian is going to be using a staff over their other weapon choices, unless they're just using it for a particular effect on the weapon, such as banishing, smiting, etc. Realistically the only ones who would consider quarterstaffs as a viable option for their damage are the classes who are only profficient in simple weapons.

Second, I'm really curious where you came up with +14. Is this an exact number, is it dependant on stats and feats, or is it a number you just made up?

Third, others have mentioned the additional strength bonus to the staffs. Even with the 1.5 strength bonus, is that really worth losing a 2nd weapon or a shield in your off-hand, especially for classes who typically have low/med strength and no melee feats or abilities? I can see this being beneficial for levels 1-3, but pretty useless after that.

[EspyLacopa]

I would put the quarterstaff in this category as well.

Nah, what they should do for Quarterstaffs is enable the ability to use them as a double weapon. (yes, this would be entirely new tech.)

[Angelus_dead]

Second, I'm really curious where you came up with +14. Is this an exact number, is it dependant on stats and feats, or is it a number you just made up?

I won't be answering that.

[nbhs275]

What im wondering is, if they are going to give a bonus to attack and damage with monk weapons. If a monk get +2/4/6/8 enhancment with their weapons kama/club/staff/shuriken i think it would be balance and fine, considering the poor base stats of these weapons. Even if they got a crit range increase with them(at lvl 14ish obviously) i would still consider it balance. So yea, if a monk crited on a 17-20 with a staff(increase crit range 1 and improved crit blunt) i would say its both a great choice and very balanced.

[DNDJESS]

I still don't understand why quarterstaffs aren't added to the weapon finesse category......

[Angelus_dead]

What im wondering is, if they are going to give a bonus to attack and damage with monk weapons. If a monk get +2/4/6/8 enhancment with their weapons kama/club/staff/shuriken

It seems natural that monks would gain a bonus to attack speed using those weapons, as that is what they get in D&D.

[Riggs]

First of all, if I group with a Barbarian who is deciding between a club and a quarterstaff for damage, one of us isn't going to be in the group for long. No self-respecting Barbarian is going to be using a staff over their other weapon choices, unless they're just using it for a particular effect on the weapon, such as banishing, smiting, etc. Realistically the only ones who would consider quarterstaffs as a viable option for their damage are the classes who are only profficient in simple weapons.

Second, I'm really curious where you came up with +14. Is this an exact number, is it dependant on stats and feats, or is it a number you just made up?

Third, others have mentioned the additional strength bonus to the staffs. Even with the 1.5 strength bonus, is that really worth losing a 2nd weapon or a shield in your off-hand, especially for classes who typically have low/med strength and no melee feats or abilities? I can see this being beneficial for levels 1-3, but pretty useless after that.

Not that this has anything to do with light hammers.....

A greater undead bane, or disrupting staff is a good weapon vs skeletons, like say in quests that have skeletons, which is like 1/3 the quests in the game (or seems like).

A staff is almost as good as a maul in that case, and if you dont have a disrupting or greater bane maul? use an axe? you could if you like doing less damage....which is what barbs are all about...doing less damage...

[Riggs]

I still don't understand why quarterstaffs aren't added to the weapon finesse category......

Rapier/light mace/shortsword/dagger etc = light one handed weapon that is maybe 2 feet long.

Quarterstaff = large 6 foot long piece of wood. Sometimes with metal on the ends.

Think you can fence with a 6 foot long staff in one hand?

A Jo staff would be a different matter, but thats a whole other set of fighting styles.

[DNDJESS]

Not that this has anything to do with light hammers.....

A greater undead bane, or disrupting staff is a good weapon vs skeletons, like say in quests that have skeletons, which is like 1/3 the quests in the game (or seems like).

A staff is almost as good as a maul in that case, and if you dont have a disrupting or greater bane maul? use an axe? you could if you like doing less damage....which is what barbs are all about...doing less damage...

Once again, it's a good weapon because of its effects, not because it's a quarterstaff. The fact that the effect is on a quarterstaff is a hindrance, not a benefit.

[squiddaddy]

Once again, it's a good weapon because of its effects, not because it's a quarterstaff. The fact that the effect is on a quarterstaff is a hindrance, not a benefit.

I think you're missing the point here somewhat. This discussion is about how light hammers are _strictly_ inferior to light maces.
No matter how rubbish you or I think quarterstaffs are, the same cannot be said about them. They are the only simple two handed weapon, and as such may have some value to someone somewhere somehow.

[nbhs275]

Once again, it's a good weapon because of its effects, not because it's a quarterstaff. The fact that the effect is on a quarterstaff is a hindrance, not a benefit.

unless, like its been said before, your A) not proficient with martial weapons, or B) poor as all get out and the Greater undead bane Quarterstaff will cost you about 10k where the greater undead bane greataxe will cost you 100k.

[Mad_Bombardier]

I still don't understand why quarterstaffs aren't added to the weapon finesse category...

I completely agree. And in my PnP game, I allow quarterstaves as finesse weapons (essentially, if you can finesse dual wield light maces, then you can finesse two ends of a staff). The difference is that in PnP a quarterstaff is a double weapon for use with TWF.

In DDO, we don't have double weapons. And a quarterstaff is just a simple proficiency 2H club. Same damage as a regular club (ie., less than greatclub), but 2H for THF feats, 2x PA, and x1.5 STR. So, finessing a staff in DDO does not make sense. If they ever add double weapons in DDO, you can be assured that I will be one of the first to champion staves as finesse weapons.

[nbhs275]

I completely agree. And in my PnP game, I allow quarterstaves as finesse weapons (essentially, if you can finesse dual wield light maces, then you can finesse two ends of a staff). The difference is that in PnP a quarterstaff is a double weapon for use with TWF.

In DDO, we don't have double weapons. And a quarterstaff is just a simple proficiency 2H club. Same damage as a regular club (ie., less than greatclub), but 2H for THF feats, 2x PA, and x1.5 STR. So, finessing a staff in DDO does not make sense. If they ever add double weapons in DDO, you can be assured that I will be one of the first to champion staves as finesse weapons.

tho there is finesse 2handed weapons in pnp, they are almost always a exotic weapon, like the Elven Greatblade (think its 1d10 18-20/x2 finessable 2hander)

[EspyLacopa]

tho there is finesse 2handed weapons in pnp, they are almost always a exotic weapon, like the Elven Greatblade (think its 1d10 18-20/x2 finessable 2hander)

Or the Spiked Chain.
2d4 base damage, 20/×2 crit, and 10ft reach.

[nbhs275]

Or the Spiked Chain.
2d4 base damage, 20/×2 crit, and 10ft reach.

which you could trip and disarm with, best weapon in the players handbook by far.

[Angelus_dead]

which you could trip and disarm with, best weapon in the players handbook by far.

Except that you become lame by wielding it (unless you're a monk). The spiked chain can work in PnP if you avoid visualizing what a character looks like using it in battle. Since DDO has 3d graphics, there is no way to avoid picturing how it looks, and the lameness would be unbearable.

This is the same reason there can be no dancing shield in DDO, by the way.

[nbhs275]

Except that you become lame by wielding it (unless you're a monk). The spiked chain can work in PnP if you avoid visualizing what a character looks like using it in battle. Since DDO has 3d graphics, there is no way to avoid picturing how it looks, and the lameness would be unbearable.

This is the same reason there can be no dancing shield in DDO, by the way.

well the one pictured in the players handbook is ****, in reality it would be more of a 15ish foot length of chain barbed at the end. Which i can completly see someone using. Just like a drunken master could swing a piece of chain and gain a 30' reach, as long as his str was at a specific level.

Think kill bill, just with 2 ends and shorter.

[Angelus_dead]

Just like a drunken master could swing a piece of chain and gain a 30' reach, as long as his str was at a specific level.

Think kill bill, just with 2 ends and shorter.

As I just said, that weapon can make sense if your combat style is like that of a monk. But if you're not an unarmed martial artist, then it's just goofy.

[DNDJESS]

tho there is finesse 2handed weapons in pnp, they are almost always a exotic weapon, like the Elven Greatblade (think its 1d10 18-20/x2 finessable 2hander)

So to make a character for 2-hand finesse weapons, you'd have to spend 1 feat on weapon finesse, and another just to get a weapon you can use? That's pretty lame IMO. If they are going to have THF finessable weapons, there has to be a couple you can use without spending a feat, or it wouldn't be worth it.