Finesse Effect Needs To Change

[DNDJESS]

This isn't about finessable weapons, this is about weapons with the 'Finesse' effect. Who exactly were these weapons intended to benefit? Since the effect is only found on weapons that are already finessable, they don't help people with the finesse feat. And people who don't have weapon finesse aren't going to use a lesser damage weapon, especially since the weapon will be weakened by having the finesse effect on it instead of some other more desirable effect.

I think changing the finesse effect to one of the suggestions below would be a huge improvement, and actually make the effect desirable by some players:

1. Remove the effect from light weapons and add it to weapons that normally aren't finessable. Then change the description and the effect itself so that it makes the weapon usable by players with the weapon finesse feat.

2. Change the finesse effect so that it uses the player's dexterity bonus for damage instead of strength. This would be a big benefit for finesse-users who have higher dexterity than strength.

3. Keep the effect as-is, but add a to-hit and/or damage bonus for players who already have the finesse feat.

4. Add an increased attack speed to the weapon. This one would probably be the hardest to implement.

I think #1 #2 or both 1 and 2 would be the best suggestions.

[Angelus_dead]

It's true that the finesse weapon enhancement has a problem: it is too expensive for the benefit.

This isn't about finessable weapons, this is about weapons with the 'Finesse' effect. Who exactly were these weapons intended to benefit?

Someone with high dexerity who didn't already have Weapon Finesse as a feat. That means some archers and some mages, but in practice neither can really benefit from it. The finesse property costs so many pluses from the weapon, it nearly cancels out their higher dex bonus, and of course has a small enhancement bonus to damage too.

1. Remove the effect from light weapons and add it to weapons that normally aren't finessable. Then change the description and the effect itself so that it makes the weapon usable by players with the weapon finesse feat.

That should be done as a separate property. It is Feycraft, from DMG2 (and is more like a material type than an enhancement)

2. Change the finesse effect so that it uses the player's dexterity bonus for damage instead of strength. This would be a big benefit for finesse-users who have higher dexterity than strength.

That should be done as a separate property, prehaps named after Elegant Strike (Races of the Wild) or Shadow Blade (Tome of Battle).

4. Add an increased attack speed to the weapon. This one would probably be the hardest to implement.

That would be a separate property, called "of Speed". DDO already has something similar, in the form of "Melee Alacrity" items.

[Impaqt]

meh, They seem to work out quite well for Players who have a Higher Dex than str and still want to be able toweild a weapon efectively without using a feat.

I know my repeater Bard had a few finesse weapons cause she had a Nice Dex, but no Str or Weapon Finesse feat.

[DNDJESS]

meh, They seem to work out quite well for Players who have a Higher Dex than str and still want to be able toweild a weapon efectively without using a feat.

I know my repeater Bard had a few finesse weapons cause she had a Nice Dex, but no Str or Weapon Finesse feat.

OK, so the only benefit is that people with low strength can now hit often for very low damage? That doesn't seem very beneficial, especially since you'll be sacrificing a useful effect that you could have on an item just to be able to hit often.

And to Angelus' post above, it seems like you agree with all the ideas I posted, as long as they don't call it 'finesse'. Seems pretty nitpick-y to me. Or are you saying they should add all these effects to the game, and also leave in the finesse effect, even though you agree it's pretty much worthless?

[Falco_Easts]

Don't like them - Don't use them.
Problem solved.

[MrCow]

The primary use of a "finesse" weapon is to equip in the offhand when you are DEX heavy and want to use a finessable weapon to attack with. Depending on the primary weapon you won't need to (or want to) damage for it to work (for instance, a banishing shortsword on a flesh render that is fascinated, do no damage to break the fascinate, but you will eventually banish it).

It may not be a potent item, but it still has uses.

[GuitarHero]

Don't like them - Don't use them.
Problem solved.

no, i refuse. And for that matter, they need to fix these vicious weapons i'm dual wielding!

[darkhorus]

Don't like them - Don't use them.
Problem solved.

i really agree with this so many players have started to complain about things they don't like about the game. don't like the game don't play it.

[Spectralist]

I use them. Both on my Great Crossbow bard. And on my Sorcerer. Its saved me a ton of spellpoints finishing off weak enemies rather then having to throw an extra spell at them for a few slivers of health. I do think the + cost of the enchantment should be lowered though. What is it, like +3?

[JFeenstra]

The primary use of a "finesse" weapon is to equip in the offhand when you are DEX heavy and want to use a finessable weapon to attack with. Depending on the primary weapon you won't need to (or want to) damage for it to work (for instance, a banishing shortsword on a flesh render that is fascinated, do no damage to break the fascinate, but you will eventually banish it).

It may not be a potent item, but it still has uses.

hitting something for 0 damage will still break fascinate

[DNDJESS]

Don't like them - Don't use them.
Problem solved.

Do you realize that the whole purpose of this section of the forums is for brainstorming? If nobody 'complained' about the things they didn't feel were right, nothing would ever change. If everybody agrees that an effect is worthless, there's a good chance the devs will reevaluate the effect.

But instead of expressing your opinion, feel free to be Turbine's 'yes-man' and keep telling us everything is perfect.

[Falco_Easts]

Do you realize that the whole purpose of this section of the forums is for brainstorming? If nobody 'complained' about the things they didn't feel were right, nothing would ever change. If everybody agrees that an effect is worthless, there's a good chance the devs will reevaluate the effect.

But instead of expressing your opinion, feel free to be Turbine's 'yes-man' and keep telling us everything is perfect.

Read the replies, most have been saying they use them.
Would be like me saying none of my characters use bastard swords, so they are no use to anyone. Khopeshes are better anyway. Bastard swords should be taken out of the game or changed.

You wanted feedback, I gave you feedback. I think Dev time could be put a lot better use. By the posts above, a lot of people find these weapons useful.

If it aint broke, don't fix it.

My original post was not meant as an attack, more an observation.

[MysticTheurge]

Or those blasted Keen weapons!!! I mean who doesn't have Improved Crit?!

[Spectralist]

Or those blasted Keen weapons!!! I mean who doesn't have Improved Crit?!

Now if only i could get a keen finesse rapier!

[ViVid7th]

Or those blasted Keen weapons!!! I mean who doesn't have Improved Crit?!

Umm, someone with a BAB lower than 8? My repeater user loves her ml4 +1 shock repeater of keen.

[Vormaerin]

Umm, someone with a BAB lower than 8? My repeater user loves her ml4 +1 shock repeater of keen.

*laughs* Did you miss the humor in MT's post or did I miss yours? Because MT was parodying the OP's assertion that "Finesse" ability is useless because anyone who would want it already has the Weapon Finesse Feat.

Oh, and my spellsinger bard could benefit from one. My Dex is 2pts higher than my Str, not enough to bother with Weapon Finesse IMHO. Haven't actually found one of those weapons, though. I'm guessing the +2 Dex doesn't stack with other +Dex effects?

[Falco_Easts]

Now if only i could get a keen finesse rapier!

Na, weighted rapier FTW!!!

[ViVid7th]

*laughs* Did you miss the humor in MT's post or did I miss yours? Because MT was parodying the OP's assertion that "Finesse" ability is useless because anyone who would want it already has the Weapon Finesse Feat.

Oh, and my spellsinger bard could benefit from one. My Dex is 2pts higher than my Str, not enough to bother with Weapon Finesse IMHO. Haven't actually found one of those weapons, though. I'm guessing the +2 Dex doesn't stack with other +Dex effects?

Nah, missed his humor. Missed the italic tag there, and since he normally somehow tags his sarcasm.

[Pellegro]

I don't know if it "needs" to change, but I'd like to see it paired with more useful debuffs.

My sorc has a great dex and I'd love to use these, but they're all +1/+2 with no effects.

Why bother?

[Falco_Easts]

I don't know if it "needs" to change, but I'd like to see it paired with more useful debuffs.

My sorc has a great dex and I'd love to use these, but they're all +1/+2 with no effects.

Why bother?

If you were to melee at the moment, what sort of weapons would you use? As a sorc, you will probably struggle to find the STR to get a hit but with finesse you will find it a bit easier. Sure, your not gonna be doing massive DPS but not to many sorcs (notice I said not many, not no sorcs) would in melee.