Familiars: What should they do?

[villainsimple]

I can think of three purposes for a Familiar...

Combatant, Skill Monkey, Buffer/Debuffer.


Of all the Familiars I've ever had the one I liked the most was the Fairie (or was it Pixie) from Baldur's Gate 2.

The Pixie was a Rogue ina Box and made playing my Sorceror to level 28 and up a joy.

If Familiars became available perhaps we would be wise to limit them to solo quests... as Soloing can be VERY difficult for certain Casters at lower levels.

[MrCow]

It would probably be a pet-like critter that gives a minor effect to the caster while it is alive. If they do implement familiars I'll try my darnest to get a Fiendish Cow familiar.

[ChaelaAnne]

It would probably be a pet-like critter that gives a minor effect to the caster while it is alive. If they do implement familiars I'll try my darnest to get a Fiendish Cow familiar.

That would get tricky Hard enough sneaking in full plate, never mind that danged cow bell.

[Sheezgame]

It's unlikely that they will put familiars pixies in to replace rogues for obvious reasons. More suited for single player games.

[Ildaron]

Still not having a familiar is not having everything a Wizard/Sorceror should have. It is one of the benefits of not multi-classing, watching your familair get stronger, more powerful, tougher, bigger and better. The affects are minor, but you have a companion always at your side.

Not having a familair is like a fighter without his first level bonus feat, sure you can still play a fighter, but it is not the whole package. We all know how weak sorcerors and wizards are. They can use the buff in power familiars would give them.. even if it is a small bump in power.

Joke. That was a joke.
Please do not flame me. That was a joke.
For the love of god three diffrent colors. It was a joke I do not seriously mean to make wizards and sorcerors even more powerful.

[nbhs275]

i used my familiar in pnp quite a bit. I was a rogue/sorc halfling, (was a master gambler >_< ) that basically used his little kitty for flanking bonuses, a scout, and to hold touch spells. Nothing like having your kitten hitting your enemy with a shocking grasp(rawr) and you then sneak attacking him with another <KAAZAP!>. Or, the best yet was when i convinced my dm that i could throw the cat like an improvised weapon, and that it would be a touch attack. Cat lands on the orc shamans face, breaking his concentration, and giving me a chance to move in behind to flank and kill him.

Back to DDO familiars, i think they will end up being played alot like most wizards use them in pnp, a little boost to hp/saves, that is kept in their bag, fed whenever it makes sense in the story.

Tho i still think Mundingo shorttoe and his cat Ace where a great RP pair.

[Sheezgame]

Yeah I just feel like the pixie in BG2 was put in so that you didn't miss any content if you weren't a rogue, but maybe they were in PnP as well?

If they could pick locks and not disable traps i think it would be fine.

Rogues will only remain playable if they are the only ones who can disable traps, and if traps are creatively used throughout dungeons. By the looks of the posts about the elite traps this is what they are aiming for anyway.

Hopefully when they do the new pet system they can work familiars in with it, would be great to have. I don't have high hopes for them putting in a pixie but it would be nice as that's the one I normally chose as well.


Didn't something bad happen to you when they died or something?

[Kalari]

Yeah I just feel like the pixie in BG2 was put in so that you didn't miss any content if you weren't a rogue, but maybe they were in PnP as well?

If they could pick locks and not disable traps i think it would be fine.

Rogues will only remain playable if they are the only ones who can disable traps, and if traps are creatively used throughout dungeons. By the looks of the posts about the elite traps this is what they are aiming for anyway.

Hopefully when they do the new pet system they can work familiars in with it, would be great to have. I don't have high hopes for them putting in a pixie but it would be nice as that's the one I normally chose as well.


Didn't something bad happen to you when they died or something?

I still play Baulders gate well II and throne of Bhaal mostly. Familars Ive seen didnt get a pick locks skill, only pick pocket which was fun to pick enemy npcs or random npc's pockets for loot. They mostly stayed in your backpack you could let them out and ask for advise or play with them. I loved the pseudo dragon mostly for that. They also had the chance to cast spells and were based on alignment.

Neutrals got some animal type= cat, rabbit, small rodent (got to check which one only one character gets a giant minature space hamster) who did sneak things like spying and pickpocketing well
Good aligned got fairy dragons, pseudo dragons which casted minor spells and could also spy but wasnt worth risking
evil got imps and quasits which could do the same as dragons I believe but gave you attitude when they did (got I loved it when my imp would mouth off).

You didnt want to get them killed off cause you took a point of permanent con damage for them dying, not sure if any other stat was affected but I know con definately takes a permanent hit (unless you fix it with shadow keeper *cheater* lol)

Id love to see familiars in game for rp reasons, I wouldnt need special abilities cause id never risk having one just to have it squished. But if im around my group and just shooting the breeze to have it come out and pick some coppers off the dwarf while hes not looking just for a laugh would be funny to me.

[Sheezgame]

I'm sure the pixie had pick lock/disable trap etc, but it has been a long time since I played so who knows.

Permanent con damage would be nasty, in DDO you would be down to 0 con before you know it. I think that's why I rarely used them in BG2, I wasn't sure if you could ever get your con back, which being permanent suggests you can't .

[villainsimple]

If Familiars became available perhaps we would be wise to limit them to solo quests... as Soloing can be VERY difficult for certain Casters at lower levels.

Did anyone bother to read this part?

[MrCow]

Did anyone bother to read this part?

Read? Yes.
Compelled to comment on it? No.

In general the lower levels are only hard for an arcane to solo due to the learning curve involved with being an arcane (or finding that thinking outside the hack-n-slash box helps). The fact that so many folks are in the mold of "place nothing into STR or DEX if possible" is also the other low level arcane solo deterrent (being unable to hit things reliably). Another pet probably isn't going to solve much of that.

[Tenkari_Rozahas]

if they added familiars....


I'd get the improved familiar feat and get myself a psuedodragon, or however the hell you spell it >>

[MysticTheurge]

I can think of three purposes for a Familiar...

Combatant, Skill Monkey, Buffer/Debuffer.

This is most assuredly what familiars should not do.

[nbhs275]

This is most assuredly what familiars should not do.

well no, skill monkey has been proven on the WotC optimization forums, where a familiar can have high ranks in things like

hide/move silently(which combined with the telepathic bond can make for a good scout)

Bluff, which is always good if he gets seen. "Meow meow im just a cat!"

Spellcraft, Can identify spells on their action

Concentrate, can keep long term spells running while your casting something else

Spot, also useful for scouting, along with listen

And for any skill it has enough ranks in, it can render you assistance when you use it.

As far as combatant, with the improved familiar feat and a few buffs they can actually make very good combatants. Especially when they get anything you buff yourself with that is personal(shield, true strike, detect thoughts to name a few).

As far as debuffer/buffer, if the spell has a range of touch, this could be true. Your familiar could deliver a Ghoul's touch to an enemy, or carry a polymorph to an ally that isnt within 5 feet of the caster.

[MysticTheurge]

A familiar should never replace another party member, even if you're doing something solo. (Perhaps, especially if you're doing something solo, since it would mean you're not really "soloing" any more, you're duoing.)

[GeneralDiomedes]

In general the lower levels are only hard for an arcane to solo due to the learning curve involved with being an arcane (or finding that thinking outside the hack-n-slash box helps). The fact that so many folks are in the mold of "place nothing into STR or DEX if possible" is also the other low level arcane solo deterrent (being unable to hit things reliably).

Indeed .. being able to actually hit something in Melee saved my arcane a lot of mana in the lower levels (and continues to in fact). Often damage spells leave mobs with only a fraction of their HP remaining, a problem solved easily by a swing of a weapon. Also many casters you can make yourself immune/resistant to all of their spells (i.e. Arcane skeletons) which means melee is basically a 'free' kill.

[Turial]

It would probably be a pet-like critter that gives a minor effect to the caster while it is alive. If they do implement familiars I'll try my darnest to get a Fiendish Cow familiar.

And then a portal opens to the Cow level and all of MrCows fiendish minions pour our and destroy us all....I mean opps wrong game.

And yeah the cat can go "meow meow I'm a cat" but all the kobolds hear is "I like kitties, I like doggies, Pet mix, pet mix please deliver."

[villainsimple]

A familiar should never replace another party member, even if you're doing something solo. (Perhaps, especially if you're doing something solo, since it would mean you're not really "soloing" any more, you're duoing.)

Why the hell not? You make this blanket statement. Explain WHY it should be that way, ESPECIALLY on solo quests where it doesn't impact anyone elses game at all.

[MysticTheurge]

Why the hell not? You make this blanket statement. Explain WHY it should be that way, ESPECIALLY on solo quests where it doesn't impact anyone elses game at all.

Because it's bad game design to allow a wizard or sorcerer to have the full effect of two classes. Especially on solo where quests are designed for one person to be doing them.

[villainsimple]

Because it's bad game design to allow a wizard or sorcerer to have the full effect of two classes. Especially on solo where quests are designed for one person to be doing them.

You mean like say... the summon spells do?

You are aware that that is EXACTLY what the Summon Spells do. In fact.. can't you get a hellhound as a Familiar?

How's about Charm person? Because having a slew of Kobolds at my beck and call, well, those are all just little fighters for my benefit (at least as much as any Familiar Combatant would be). Some are even micro wizards. And we're not talking one... we're talking a small army.

So, no more Charming Spells... no more Summoning Spells... because apparently, to you, they're "bad design".

Is there anything else you'd like to wrench out of the game in your pursuit of "balance"?