It's Time for Some Ranger Love!

[Omega2K]

I play a lot of different characters... And for a change of pace, I picked up my Ranger to get her Shroud ready... Let me just say I was shocked at how slow her ranged (bow) DPS is compared to melee... Mages and Clerics are beginning to take off in the kill counts because of instant death spells and rightly so - casters should be incredibly powerful in the high levels. However, what has happened to the true ranged Ranger? Lost along the way it appears.

Four things that we should see for Rangers:

All Pet Spells should be automatically loaded and should not require one of our precious few spell slots. This is done for Cleric's Cure spells so I do not understand why a Ranger should have to sacrifice a Spell Slot for an ability they should have at all times. See the Players' Hand Book. DDO had to make it a spell so we could have pets. Fine. At least you could do is give us that Spell for free and not take away what little the Ranger has to differentiate themselves from other classes.

Secondly, it is time to increase the Ranger's Ranged DPS. I know it can be done. It used to be that way back in Beta but the Devs thought it was too powerful and gimped everyone. I am not saying that all Classes should have their Ranged DPS (Rate of Fire, etc.) increased, just the high-level Rangers (say Level 15+)... At Level 16 Ranger, I should be able to fire as fast as I can click my mouse. Point, click, shoot. Rate of Fire is our bread and butter... Why is it that I feel I have not gotten any better at it since Level 5?

Third, it would be great to have a specialized container like a Quiver to store all of our arrows. Inventory space is at a premium and when you have to carry 1500 Silver Arrows to help kill the boss at the end of The Shroud, you become very restricted on what loot you can actually pick up. Quivers should be available to all classes but they are crucial to a Ranged Combat Ranger.

Lastly, I noticed that my level 16 Ranger is only shooting three arrows at a time with Multi-Shot on... According to the Feat description it should be four. If you could correct this issue and reduce the reset timer on Multi-Shot, I would be much happier in lieu of an overall increase in ROF for Bow Combat.

Thanks for your attention to this important matter.

[Sheezgame]

As mentioned in the ranger feat thread I suggest the following:

Ranged attack speed should be increased to 90%, either for all ranged, or tie it into a ranger only class feat that we already get, or put in a new class feat to do this at a specific level. This should bring the dps up a little bit more on par with melee, but not quite as fast.


Next to increase damage a bit, change multishot to a stance where you can select how many arrows you want to fire.
2 Arrows: 80% attack speed, -2 attack on second arrow
3 Arrows: 70% attack speed, -4 attack on third arrow
4 Arrows: 60% attack speed, -6 attack on second arrow
5 Arrows: 50% attack speed, -8 attack on third arrow


The pet spell thing would be nice as well, should be easy for them to do and wouldn't be overpowered because:
a) pet's aren't that great anyway
b) pets become more useless at higher levels
c) most other ranger spells to choose from aren't that great anyway

[BlueLightBandit]

Bah, my ranger only picks up a bow when he wants to grab aggro from across the room.

Bring it closer and hack it to death with an axe. THAT, my friend, is the ranger way.

[Sheezgame]

That's exactly what a fighter would say

[GuitarHero]

like most things, i wouldn't suggest making it a (Insert Class Here) exclusive thing. ROF should be tied to your base attack bonus, plain and simple. If you have rapid shot, you should get an extra attack with a -2 to all attacks. I know it would make too much sense, but hey, what do i know?

[Yaga_Nub]

like most things, i wouldn't suggest making it a (Insert Class Here) exclusive thing. ROF should be tied to your base attack bonus, plain and simple. If you have rapid shot, you should get an extra attack with a -2 to all attacks. I know it would make too much sense, but hey, what do i know?

How does that make any sense? Change a feat just to get something we already should have?

[Qzipoun]

Bah, my ranger only picks up a bow when he wants to grab aggro from across the room.

Bring it closer and hack it to death with an axe. THAT, my friend, is the ranger way.

QFT

[Sheezgame]

If ranged was better you would pick up your bow more often @!#QFT.

@GuitarHero: Yeah that makes sense basing it off the BAB, they would just have to work out the best way to scale it. Either way I think everyone agrees it is probably too slow as it is currently.

[Strykersz]

Because if any class in the game needs more love, it's rangers.

[Karavek]

What is wrong with you my friend, I have played 3 ranger hybrids and though none be the mightiest I do not feel they are weak. My first character when I begane was a pal/rang/rogue, this was done to simulate a character I ahd played in second edition a half elf ranger rogue who using skills and powers optional rule book had adopted a few paladin traits becasue he had been the oldest son of a dragon slaying paladin but was unable to fit in among the humans alone(his mother had dissappeared when he was little answering the call of her elvish homeland whena great threat arose and she fell in battle) and when he was nearly a man a mysterious elf druid ranger appeared and offered to teach him the ways of his mothers people( an uncle who fulfilled the dying promise of his sister). His name was karavek and though I had made his stats rounded not having any extremes he was one of the first rogue paladins on the fernia server and his preferance to start with a bow then change to 2 weapon style often gained him a nice kill count as well as being very enduring to magic compared to many at the time but the over powered pure paladin in this game.

My second was a elf ranger rogue 5/5 split ( id quit just after the lvl 12 cap increase for many reasons not game related and a few that where) named spruce who had gone after the super dex finnesse warrior, though he had a decent strength still to take advantage of the str bow dmg rangers get. He excelled well until they crippled his ability to do battle against red bosses with his favored weapon a wounding rapier(this was back when wounders where quite rare still, and though many think its the wounding puncturer taht brought about total stat damage immunity it was really ray of enfeeblment being spammed on the dragon) which was used so hard it finally lost all durability before i could gain another as back up. He was an awesome warrior who 3 times faced the Big Red, and though never did the group see victory, all 3 times I was the last elf standing my evasion super reflex and high accuracy let my frost rapier and short sword of pure good deal healthy damage(it was only when my cure potions ran out that I finally dropped for it breathed way to much which was harmless for the most part to me, and only whena claw/claw/bite caught me and all 3 where crits was I overwhelmed)

And finally there is my current ranger/rouge drow. As I only recently returned to Stormreach and found many differences in feats and enhancments I felt it was time to try a new drow version until i unlock 32 point builds and can re roll spruce springsting into an even mighter high elf. I have cleared 9 lvls in 6 days, soloing for the most part through to lvl 4 at a fast pace, and even soloing through the WW 9 frikken times from 3-5 for my black widow bracers( I did once or twice have a friend or two along from the small guild I hooked up with but it was only for company not need of assitance). He to favors wounders though ofcourse they mean nothing to the fierce red names now, and has to carry a bag full of weapons for every variety of foe.

Now you may ask by now where is the response to ranged rangers, well here it comes. Never existed in PnP, even if a ranger takes only ranged related feats, even if all his prestige classes are foccussed in archery( say arcane archer, order of the bow initiate, deepwood stalker, and likely 4 lvls in ftr for bow spec) rangers still draw thier twin blades in close quarters or maces for skellies and the like after all some things jsut make little sense to shoot pointy sticks at no matter thier magical power. Dont like hearing taht you are expect to close, well to bad you are a frikken warrior not a sniveling sorcerer hiding in the backrow. Since the first days in DDO I infact get offended by casters who dont carry a decent staff and throwing dagger to at least help in some fights while conserving spell points, if they wanted to be blasters they should play COH. And do not even get me started on all my elven and drow kinsman who do not see the logic in some decent mithril armor and a good rapier and an odd lvl or two in ftr or ranger or pal to be a light tank for when mana is low or needs to be saved for the boss.

Why would you even want to be a pure archer, if you want to be a ranged death dealer only casters can dominate, and that is the way it is. In melee all warriors, and the rogue should be farely equal, though due to many imbalances in the game( largely having to due with the mass of undead quest probably 40%, and constructs probably another 20%, and red names mattering most maybe another 5-10% paladins and high str dps builds have a huge advantage, especially th paladins point blank divine fire ball as i call it, allow a paladin to do things they never could in PnP being tradionally weaker in most quest that are no undead heavy which they are not with the enhancements allowing them stronger saves and combat abilities then they normally would have.

The real point is not you being pure ranged but the complete imbalance of you and most other high dex low str ranger and rogue builds being unable to bring the full force of our already existing abilities to the battles in many quest. For example the crit power of deepwood means nothing to 60% of the foes, same with poor rogues sneak atk forces us to either spend huge amounts of coin aquiring highly sought after finnesse weapons( when a Sunblade should just be a static reward in threnal along side retribution( after all 4d6 is better then a D10+2 agaisnt undead, and give all 2 weapon ftrs, and finnesse ftrs a good weapon agaisnt a major enemy type without need to grind for ever for the 4-9 million gold most ask for them on auction.

Remember bows are not your only weapon, even as my twin weapon masters are still competent archers with a high dex decent str and innate ranger bow feats, so to are bow users still meant to draw steel when the beast closes quarters on you. Do not ask for a buff to archery whcih likely will elad to further imbalance, instead ask for the tools we need to do our jobs right , after all if you had 2 sunblades( which in pnp most rangers carry by lvl 10) then you wouldnt fear the dark chaos of the melee

As for a Bows stopping power agaisnt things you can crit, geta silver bow, take all the feats, try deepwood sniper, and pack bane arrows, or elemental damage arrows for the right job, against the big red you could be doing +4d6 per shot with frost arrows with that silver bow and on your sniper shot havea 16-20x4 crit(never seen them but frost burst arrows would be even better with 6d10 bonus on the crit. Like rogues and finesse warriors, archers just need the right weapons for the right job, be thankful at least your favored weapon type has some good easy to get ones out there, and many sell thier elemental and bane arrows on auction making ammo easier to find.

I hope this helps to enlighten you to the true imbalance and learn to fight smarter not harder.

Walk in the woods, run with the breeze, no matter how mighty, the Red will always fear the Freeze.Be safe and stalk well my fellow rangers.

If you are on ghallanda seek out Leafon The whirlwind, ranger/rogue/ftr drow tempest. I am but a leaf on the wind, a sword in the storm, the elven hurricane and will continue to champion the cause of elves and thier small kin the halflings for all times.

[Turial]

No one is saying anyone should use ranged combat full time.

What we are asking for is an alternative to simply beating on every single mob in the game. Honestly as raids become more wars of attrition the game needs something between melee and casting for a damage dealing option that uses resources but doesn't consume them a the phenominal rates the melee and spell slinging can. Currently ranged combat doesn't fit that roll due to the slow rate of fire.

The rules governing ranged combat in pnp give some balance to ranged vs melee because a ranged combat user must have enough dex to hit the target as well as a decent str for dealing damage. As you increase your str you tend to loose out on the ability to have the high dex for taking on mobs accross AC values.

[Fetchi]

I think one thing people are disregarding are the incredible amount of HPs mobs have - especially at higher levels. I have a primarily ranged spec'd level 16 ranger who can hit just about every shot. Yet, it takes me forever to kill anything and a whole bunch of arrows (WHICH STILL TAKE UP ALL MY INVENTORY SPACE - WHERE ARE THE QUIVERS!!).

Let me ask you all this question: How many arrows does it take your ranger to take out a devil in the vale with a silver longbow? You can even take into account many shot and deepwoods sniper enhancements if you like.

I bet you are going to find it takes much too long to kill one creature for a 'ranging' toon than all other classes.

[Steejan]

Hey Fetchi,

I run an L-16 pure bred 28 point human Ranger, Dex 34/Str 23 and I can tell you from my own Vale experiences, you got to find yourself a good banisher. (short sword, rapier or repeater) or what ever weapon type that works well with your build and its crit range. That way the baddies and their bloated hit points won’t mean jack to you!

In my mind, taking the devils on and trying to DPS them to death is a very slow and costly way of killing them.

My Ranger uses a Heavy Repeater and that is the only way I’d even consider locking horns with those baddies. If you can find a good banisher, that will help you immensely in the Vale since a large portion of its inhabitance can be banished. Also I have found out that wounders and punctures work pretty well too on the non devils and if you have a ranged or hand paralizing weapon that will making your adventuring there that much easier.

Since the Vale opened for business, that has became my Ranger’s newest solo loot run area and of course it take a little patients on my part to make the runs but it very attainable.

I do have to completely agree with you on the ammunition consumption issue. I typically go through 7 stacks of the 75% returning bolts while I’m making ONE Vale solo trip and in that trip that account's for visiting all the areas where the chests could spawn.

Also, its really about time for the Devs to do something with the ammunition stack size or at least give us some kind of quivers.

To answer the question your posed, as far as my Ranger goes, I don’t use anything but my banishing heavy repeater against any of the devils in the Vale and they only hang around bothering me, untiI I smack them down with a crit on my repeater, which usually is not too long.

Another thing that I have found VERY helpful indeed, is when you are running the devil area make use of the cats laying around there. Paralyze them and then charm them with your Ranger's Empathy feat. They make wonderful cannon fodder and the charm lasts a decent amount of time and those cats seem to grab and hold the devils agro for a long time allowing you all the more time to get them all banished.

All in all, I have found that my Ranger in the Vale, armed with the right weapons is an absolutely deadly opponent.

Oh and one more thing, I'm quite happy with the rate of fire my heavy repeater has at this time. Please don't drop it down anymore, if ya have to raise it, i'm ok with that but otherwise just leave it alone.

Steejan...

[Omega2K]

Where's the Ranger Love, Turbine?

(Added Quivers to my Original Post. Great idea and long overdue!)

[salmag]

The only complaint I have is in the Manyshot cooldown timer. Lower it to 20-30 secs, or make manyshot a toggleable (as others have suggested). Two minutes is way too long a cooldown.

Could you imagine the uproar if Cleave or Power Attack had a 2 minute cooldown.

And noone is saying that a Fighter, Barbarian, or Paladin can not pick up a bow either.

[MylesMDT]

As a level 10 Ranger, back for the "Welcome Back Week," I still see a very flawed ranged system. The differences in the flaws are changed than they were 1 year, and 2 years ago - but it is still flawed. Rangers just need some love.

[Yaga_Nub]

If you are on ghallanda seek out Leafon The whirlwind, ranger/rogue/ftr drow tempest. I am but a leaf on the wind, a sword in the storm, the elven hurricane and will continue to champion the cause of elves and thier small kin the halflings for all times.

I'm elven as well and those little rat b*stards sure as hell aren't my kin.