Vermin: TONE THEM DOWN

[MysticTheurge]

Actually I'm talking about the scorpions in Elite Stealing the healing Elixir as muc as I am the Vale.

Oh, well in that case it's easy.

Don't pull the wrong lever.

[Snoggy]

Those **** twilight scorpions on the way to Meridia! Not only are they speedy as hell, by the time I can DPS them on my rog I'm dead, and they continually make saves against my heightened FOD (Can't recall the DC at the moment but it's fairly high for being a level 15 Wiz with 30 INT)

For your rogue, I'd use a paralyzer. That's what my fighter does. The stuff on the way to meridia only slows me down and makes me take my time killing it. But the paralyzer makes it very very doable.

[MrCow]

Which of these options are available to the proper level players in Sewer Rescue? Note, the Vermin there very much do have ranged attacks.

Range them from the top (it requires one person to play decoy to activate them) in a manner that you can hit them but they can't hit you back (ranged weapon fired in a way that it crests just over the side of the top-level ledge and the acid hits the ledge, or fire and move). The spiders for Sewer Rescue have only an acid ranged attack and not the spider web piercing damage ranged attack. Acid resistance can help here too (such as from a potion).

Vermin are a melee-bane, much like devils and golems are a caster-bane.

[Vizzini]

Not a bad idea - so long as I can paralyze then before they drain all my con ;0

For your rogue, I'd use a paralyzer. That's what my fighter does. The stuff on the way to meridia only slows me down and makes me take my time killing it. But the paralyzer makes it very very doable.

[EspyLacopa]

Of course. Silly me assumes that when people say "vermin" they mean real vermin and not just vermin-shaped-things.

(Though technically, the fiendish scorpions are outsiders, not magical beasts.)

Fiendish Scorpions are Magical Beasts.

Quori Stalkers (they looks like glass spiders but drain Charisma) be Lawful Evil Outsiders.

[villainsimple]

Range them from the top (it requires one person to play decoy to activate them) in a manner that you can hit them but they can't hit you back (ranged weapon fired in a way that it crests just over the side of the top-level ledge and the acid hits the ledge, or fire and move). The spiders for Sewer Rescue have only an acid ranged attack and not the spider web piercing damage ranged attack. Acid resistance can help here too (such as from a potion).

Vermin are a melee-bane, much like devils and golems are a caster-bane.

So in other words your one recourse is to take advantage of bugged AI?

Pun purely intended.

[Shade]

Another thing that works on spiders in the vale (altho not all spiders):

Ottos .. Resistable/Unresistable/Orb they all work.

Note that they don't know how to dance tho, so they will still walk around, but they will not attack while under its effect.. Also if you used orb and they walked out of the orb they will then attack... So just stand inside the orb so they sit there with you.

[MrCow]

So in other words your one recourse is to take advantage of bugged AI?

Arguably its a flaw in physics.

[MysticTheurge]

So in other words your one recourse is to take advantage of bugged AI?

You could also... I don't know... not go for the optional chest if you can't handle the monsters guarding it.

If you don't go for the chest all you have to do is have one person (with a high AC) go down the ladder on one side, avoid the one or two spiders that are there by default, go back up the ladder on the other and lower the bridge.

[twix]

Is this thread serious?Vermin are easy...i think the scorps in greymoons elite are harder then the ones in the vale..

[villainsimple]

You could also... I don't know... not go for the optional chest if you can't handle the monsters guarding it.

If you don't go for the chest all you have to do is have one person (with a high AC) go down the ladder on one side, avoid the one or two spiders that are there by default, go back up the ladder on the other and lower the bridge.

*facepalm*

It's not simply them... it's vermin all over the game that people are terrified of. That's not hyperbole.

Listen, a lot of you posters sit on your ivory towers but down in the trenches, in pugs, or groups of just regular players... things can be mighty different.


When fighting vermin it consistantly feels like I am fighting creatures that are one or two levels above everything else I find in the quest.

The hardest monster encounter in Grey Moon Waning is arguably the scorpions by the shrine. The end "boss" is a joke by comparison.

[MysticTheurge]

The hardest monster encounter in Grey Moon Waning is arguably the scorpions by the shrine. The end "boss" is a joke by comparison.

And at that point, as people have been trying to tell you, there are CC methods available to help take out vermin.

Soundburst is a level 2 cleric spell. They get it at third level. Get them to use it.

[Borror0]

The hardest monster encounter in Grey Moon Waning is arguably the scorpions by the shrine. The end "boss" is a joke by comparison.

They are a pain to kill, but are nowhere a threat to the completion of the quest. Never remember getting near a wipe against these. Annoying to kill because they keep going underground and sometimes bug out neither taking nor dealing damage (and wasting our time)? Yes. However they aren't hard.

Talking about Greymoon... I fear much more the Trolls and Ogres than the scorpions.

[villainsimple]

And at that point, as people have been trying to tell you, there are CC methods available to help take out vermin.

Soundburst is a level 2 cleric spell. They get it at third level. Get them to use it.

And that argument can be used on every foe.

yeah, the undead, we're giving them all +600 hp. Just use turning, you'll be fine then. Clerics get that at level one. There's your solution.

*sigh*

I'd like to point out that although soundburst as a crowd control measure does work against Vermin... Fortitude is the Vermins high save.

Ergo you're already walking up hill.

So they have high ac, hit like trucks, good hitpoints, oh...and the spells you use to control them? yeah, they have a tendency to resist those.

The only spells I can reliably say works well against vermin are slows.

[Sheezgame]

I find that vermin, particularly scorpions can be pretty tough if you don't have the right gear etc. They are probably one of my biggest threats on my sorcerer, but not my ranger.


Having said that, and as much as I 'hate' them, I think it is great to have monsters that are more of a threat to you, that make you tread careful and fear them! I would much rather this than not having to put in effort into a fight and fight to stay alive.

I would much rather die to hard mobs then get bored from pushover mobs!

[CrazySamaritan]

I'd like to point out that although soundburst as a crowd control measure does work against Vermin... Fortitude is the Vermins high save.

Ergo you're already walking up hill.

So they have high ac, hit like trucks, good hitpoints, oh...and the spells you use to control them? yeah, they have a tendency to resist those.

The only spells I can reliably say works well against vermin are slows.

1) How often do you see melee monsters saving against fort saves? Did you know that's their high save?

2) Players already do that often enough. PK is walking up a hill because few monsters have only reflex as a good save.

3) Good hitpoints? Did you know they get hitpoints and attack like a cleric? I'm pretty sure people agree that d8 HD are 'decent', but not 'good'. High attack comes from Weapon Finesse of their natural weapon.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm


Know what is really walking up a hill? Elite.
I've been able to eliminate the spiders in Sewer Rescue at second level, in a duo. My rogue had a returning weapon. Their attacks have an arc that gets blocked, but mine doesn't. This is an effect known since headstart.

[ViVid7th]

Villain, you keep saying that Vermin are party killers, but what about them? What happens that causes them to kill off the tanks and casters? Poison? Damage per hit? Inability to be taunted? What?

What class are you playing when you have trouble with vermin? I've been pugging on all my characters since I started playing and I have had more trouble with Ogres and Giants than Vermin.

[sirgog]

Is this thread serious?Vermin are easy...i think the scorps in greymoons elite are harder then the ones in the vale..

The Greymoon elite scorps are rough if you try to kill them.

Myself, I prefer to feed them a charmed ogre.

[MysticTheurge]

we're giving them all +600 hp

Seriously?

Welcome to DDO.

[Amabel]

The hardest part of sewer rescue is the spider ambush...by FAR... the hardest part of tangleroot is the scorpions, by far...

Really? We always wipe with Whisperdoom. Never have been able to finish Tangleroot and I don't know how anyone kills Whisperdoom unless they're cheating.