A build Request no one likes

[Elvejon]

Someone mind helping me make a Summoning/Charming sorc? Becasue by far i think so far this is the first or second time someone mention "Charming"or"Summoning" in a build. and im quite intersted to hear if you guys do know i thing or two about charming

[Merkinsal]

im quite intersted to hear if you guys do know i thing or two about charming

My wife thinks I'm charming. I'm flattered but maybe I should have her committed because I'm worried about her judgement. Actually, in answer to your question, I don't know squat about charming. I do know I don't like the summoned animals. Perhaps if we had some control over them, but not in their current state.

[Dariuss]

If you want to charm I would advise taking dispel magic so you can 'uncharm' your pets as needed (like when you have to kill all the mobs to move forward and you end up standing around waiting for a monster to save so you can kill it)

[toord]

Someone mind helping me make a Summoning/Charming sorc? Becasue by far i think so far this is the first or second time someone mention "Charming"or"Summoning" in a build. and im quite intersted to hear if you guys do know i thing or two about charming

Charming monsters has its uses; however, at higher lvls it becomes a bit annoying (and even dangerous) to charm enemies. Couple of instances:

* A charmed monster drew a ****load of aggro before the party was ready to face the last monster almost causing a wipe.
* A charmed monster killed the last two crimsom-foot spiders (Sleeping Dust) causing the mission to fail.

The problem, as someone said, is that you have ZERO control over your newfound friends. And they can be quite unpredictable and a waste of time (at best). At lower lvls charm can be fun (i.e. Kobold Assault and Protect the Stolen Goods(right?)) where charmed mobs are actually pretty useful as meat shields/bait ... but other than that I wouldn't be too happy a sorcerer in my party is a specialized "charmer."

Peace.

[adamkatt]

Charming monsters has its uses; however, at higher lvls it becomes a bit annoying (and even dangerous) to charm enemies. Couple of instances:

* A charmed monster drew a ****load of aggro before the party was ready to face the last monster almost causing a wipe.
* A charmed monster killed the last two crimsom-foot spiders (Sleeping Dust) causing the mission to fail.

The problem, as someone said, is that you have ZERO control over your newfound friends. And they can be quite unpredictable and a waste of time (at best). At lower lvls charm can be fun (i.e. Kobold Assault and Protect the Stolen Goods(right?)) where charmed mobs are actually pretty useful as meat shields/bait ... but other than that I wouldn't be too happy a sorcerer in my party is a specialized "charmer."

Peace.

Charming all the mobs is quest situational. No you prob shouldnt charm in a quest where you must keep certain mobs alive, but for example the the new gnoll quest. You can charm most of the mobs in there with no probs... to dispell your charms, just keep alhold of those lvl 10 dispell wands that drop quite often in higher lvl quests.

[Elaril]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...light=annoying

This seems to fit the bill.

Alternately, you could probabally maxamize the annoyingness of this build by going Drow and starting your Charisma at 20 and not taking Maximize, as you'll have one less feat and, as an enchanter, you wouldn't be focused on damage anyway.

[Canuckalhead]

Annoying yes, I suppose, in groups with people focused on kill counts or ones where you have to kill x number of things or keep so and so alive. But fun for soloing. I was doing some ore runs in BAM on my sorc earlier and it was going so well and fun with mass suggestion that I decided to just finish off the whole thing and get some craptastic loot.

As for a build, not sure you need to be totally spec'd for it to work out. My sorc is more of a nuker and had no problems, mind you it was only a lvl 12 dungeon.

[Roman]

The reasons mentioned above have given charm a bad rap, but the same can be said of any strategy that is executed poorly. If used intelligently, then charming can be very mana efficient and make certain areas ridiculously easy. Definitely not an all the time approach, but it has its time and place. If you really want to base a build around it then take the appropriate spell focus feat and spell penetration, but dont negelect your nukes.

[MrWizard]

Someone mind helping me make a Summoning/Charming sorc? Becasue by far i think so far this is the first or second time someone mention "Charming"or"Summoning" in a build. and im quite intersted to hear if you guys do know i thing or two about charming

You should go max on your charisma.
Take a enchantment focus feat 1st
take heighten feat (as soon as you can cast second level spells)
Enlarge for another feat .
Spell pen and greater spell pen feats
The rest does not matter and up to you.

Breaking charms is actually very very easy. (much to many people's surprise).
Fourth level scrolls (castable when you are able to cast third level spells) of Lessor globe of invulnerbility are readily available. Simply casting it makes a globe that will dispel charm person, suggestion, and command undead in the globe. A monster can be whacked, killed, etc..if he leaves it the charm continues and reentering it will render the charm mute again. A wiz or UMDer may be able to use these scrolls better then you due to the rate you gain level of spells.

With you at low level though, the charms do not last very long anyway.

Globe of invulnerbility, 6th level, scrolls available, will cancel out 4th level and lower charms (which also includes charm monster). Again, a great way to break the charm with room to spare.

Others may try dispel magic and break enchantment, but once you get up there it will be hard to dispel due to your strenght of cast. The only ones you cannot use a globe for are dominate person, Mass suggestion (short duration anyway), and symbol of persusasion. Of all these, only dominate person will be the 'long wait' and impossible to dispel one. But at this point you should know the dungeons well enough to not have many problems.

What spells to use?

Charm person is the first one you need. 1st level spell.
When you can cast third levels, you want suggestion so you can charm non-humanoids.
Fourth level spell charm monster is one I would switch out for suggestion since your DCs will be pretty high.
Suggestion: short duration, Charm monster can be much longer or shorter depending on the save of the monster.
5th level spell dominate person is an awesome spell and you can drop charm person. Although you could keep charm person, I find dominate person will last forever.

Mass charms..... Mass suggestion, symbol of persuasion, mass charm monster- This will depend on your strategies. These will charm, or try to charm, in an area with no selective option, what is there will try to be charmed. Persuasion does charm things the other spells do not.

Mass suggestion- three monsters at most, short duration, dangerous as all pop at same time.
Symbol persusion- seemingly unlimited mobs til it goes away, can be dangerous as all pop at same time.
Mass Charm Monster- unknown for sure as of yet.

I personally only use Dominate person and charm monster (once i am able to cast that level spell). I dislike mass charming and having the two spells usually lets me cast as often as I need without a wait for cooldown (the old 1-2).

Yes, you can still take fire/cold enhancements, get superior lore items, get the best crit chances, get the best multiplier, but you may want to just get maximize and may not be able to get empower to go with it. So, yes virginia, you can still nuke santa claus.

Strategy

Open to everyone's interpretation.

My way is to selectively charm mobs. I try never to charm a caster or cleric, only the fighters-rangers-thieves-etc so they beat up the casters. This has a few pluses.

First, the charmed fighters will be doing no damage to your fighters or casters. They will attack the remaining mobs which will be casters and clerics. This will cause aggro to go to the charmed and not your group.
Enlarge is perfect for this as you can charm a fighter(s) from a distance and all aggro will melee around the charm before party is even in sight. This allows for selective killing by the fighters in your group.

Second, fighters seem to have worse saves so they will stay with you longer as a small army. When they break, they hit, that's all. If a caster were to be charmed, he would break quicker and when he does he may lay waste to the party from behind you with no warning at all.

Third, ranged charms will do awesome aggro management and act as secondary rangers bringing approacing mobs down before they get to you.

Undead the same, command undead is awesome and takes the skellie archers out of the picture. Your cleric will love it as no one is getting mutilated by archers during combat. Works on arcanes and in bad situations charming an arcane can help save the party and allow a regroup.

Other considerations

In most dungeons, a charmer can make it a walk in the park. However, for game play this kinda makes it lame for everyone. If you have a good group let em have fun and just do regualr crowd control with an occaisional charm. With a bad pug, ignore the whining and take them to the end by using charm.

Loot runs- the quicker the better. Why spend time and money fighting something you can just ignore and run by. The cleric will love you for this as no wands or scrolls will be needed.

If you have spell focus enchantment, heighten, spell pens, etc as listed above, your crowd control will be just as awesome.. hold person, hold monster, hypnotize/pattern, ottos/ball/irrestible, and so many more...

There are some that will absolutely hate you if you charm anything at all and will actually sit and wait for them to break before moving on. If the party is good, then just say 'okay then' and stop charming and let them do what they want...if the pug is bad wither leave or ignore them.

Final thoughts

In most lower level dungeons (14th and lower) correctly using charm and some crowd control will allow you to solo most of it. Or at least completely dominate most of it. Tangleroot elite is super easy with a charmer al the way through, even as a lowbie.

Just remember it is about enjoyment for everyone. Complete domination and speeding through a dungeon is awesome, but many will not enjoy going so fast or not having to do much (except your cleric). So, take it light and and adjust it to the group you are in.

My fighter and cleric loves to run with charm specs as the group dynamic allows total and complete destruction of the enemy without much damage or cost (wands/scrolls/pots) and I get to loot chests quickly.

I find that leveling up my sorc is the easist of all due to charm as I can just shoot through low levels with ease.

Charmed mobs can fight and box in red names very well. Many charmed fighters use crippling, tendon slice, etc and will hit the red named with it too, slowing him down.

Just remember some absolutely hate charm and see it as an exploit. There will be tense times in some groups due to this. If they are good at what they do, just haste them and buff them (as they hate casters for much of anything else) and only use charm if the party is wiping. If you do not kinda bend for them you will see people actually leave as soon as they see a few charms walking around as "it is not the way I like to play" right before they bail.

Break enchantment scrolls can help with dominate person and the mass charms...but with your high DC it will take quite a few scrolls. Just learn when not to charm.

For leveling, looting, outdoor areas, etc...it is, for me, the quickest fastest way to get loot and xp. ANd easy to do small groups when a full group cannot form.

[MrWizard]

to add one more thing after reading the posts...

you do not have to charm everything in site. Just charm emough to get aggro off party as best as possible and help bring down casters. Or just charm enough so the party can ignore the encounter and move on. Or charm that annoying ranger you cannot get too but is tearing up the party from a ledge.

Charm=speed
Charm= no healing needed
charm = quick xp
charm= quick loot

but..it can also mean

charm= hate of certain players that just despise it.
charm= not completing conquest for the additional 10-500 xp it would get you above the 15% onslaught.
Charm = annoying if poorly used.
Charm = break at wrong time

For the chaotic evil caster....

Use suggestion (short duration.. then cast the following buffs on him
GH, all resists, all Protections, blur, extended displacement, true seeing, extended haste, all stat stuff (bull strength, etc), deathward from a clickie, jump, and any other buff you can think of....in less than a minute and a hlaf you have uber monster attacking unsuspecting party.

And then you will have to move to another server...but chaotic evil casters are known for that I guess. Works good on plat farmers too.

[Pyromaniac]

Charming is great - and can make some quests much much easier. Carry break enchantment at all times, then generally there isn't as much complaining in parties.

My sorc is more of a nuker, with insta kill and charming capabilities. I break out the charms on specific quests or if the party is seriously lacking in DPS (i.e. your run of the mill pickup groups).

Hey I'm chaotic netural - cause chaotic evil wasn't an option in DDO

[Elvejon]

Thelanis: Mindcrusher (Level 8 Sorc)

Feats: Spell focus: Enchantment, Nercomancy
Greater Spell focus: Enchantment

Spells:

Lvl1: Sleep, Hpyno, MM, Mage Armor

Lvl2: Blur, Command Undead, Ooze Puppet

Lvl3: Summon Monster III, Dispel Magic

Lvl4: Charm Monster

Its been going great..

[Solmage]

Charming has the potential to save a wipe easier than just about anything else. Example:

Someone triggered 10+ incoming Elite Eladrin casters before you were ready. (In fact, you were never going to GET ready for that, you wanted someone to pull 1 or 2, maybe 4..)

One Web can hold a few for a few seconds. One (slow casting dancing ball) will hit 3-4 and hold them for 8-12 seconds, on average. One extended mass suggestion will also hit 3-4 for over 3 minutes, but those 3-4 will also take the aggro of a few more, reducing the enemies you fight down to a manageable level for a long time, while significantly increasing your overall dps. (Those searing lights and chain lightnings hurt!)

But like everything else, a poorly executed charm has the potential to just p* off people and be a nuissance. (Gee, thanks for charming that monster I had down to 5% health on an encounter where we didn't NEED any help nor were we taking any real damage. That REALLY helped our party, don't know what we'd do without you, here let me write your name down for future reference, ok?)

However, bad play isn't limited to charmers, simply compare that to the fireball + run away + res/intensive healing required sorcerer, which frankly isn't any better (quite possibly worse).

[Elvejon]

Charming has the potential to save a wipe easier than just about anything else. Example:

Someone triggered 10+ incoming Elite Eladrin casters before you were ready. (In fact, you were never going to GET ready for that, you wanted someone to pull 1 or 2, maybe 4..)

One Web can hold a few for a few seconds. One (slow casting dancing ball) will hit 3-4 and hold them for 8-12 seconds, on average. One extended mass suggestion will also hit 3-4 for over 3 minutes, but those 3-4 will also take the aggro of a few more, reducing the enemies you fight down to a manageable level for a long time, while significantly increasing your overall dps. (Those searing lights and chain lightnings hurt!)

But like everything else, a poorly executed charm has the potential to just p* off people and be a nuissance. (Gee, thanks for charming that monster I had down to 5% health on an encounter where we didn't NEED any help nor were we taking any real damage. That REALLY helped our party, don't know what we'd do without you, here let me write your name down for future reference, ok?)

However, bad play isn't limited to charmers, simply compare that to the fireball + run away + res/intensive healing required sorcerer, which frankly isn't any better (quite possibly worse).

Thats why you carry dispel. When a monster is down 15% or less i dispel it for how useless itll be in the first place. manily cuase you were fighting it before i could get a shot at it.

[Wizzly_Bear]

Someone mind helping me make a Summoning/Charming sorc? Becasue by far i think so far this is the first or second time someone mention "Charming"or"Summoning" in a build. and im quite intersted to hear if you guys do know i thing or two about charming

my own personal suggestion and plan for an enchanter sorcerer. just for the record however, generally better off with wiz for enchanting for more feats.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.85
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 16 True Neutral Drow Male
(16 Sorcerer) 
Hit Points: 116
Spell Points: 1660 
BAB: 8\8\13
Fortitude: 7
Reflex: 7
Will: 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Stats          Modified Stats
Abilities        (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             10                    10
Dexterity            14                    15
Constitution         12                    14
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             20                    30

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 16
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)

Concentration         5                    23
Use Magic Device      7                    19.5


Level 1 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Casting
Spell (1): Charm Person
Spell (1): Hypnotism

Level 2 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Spell (1): Magic Missle

Level 3 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Spell (1): Nightshield

Level 4 (Sorcerer)
Spell (2): Command Undead

Level 5 (Sorcerer)
Spell (2): Scorching Ray

Level 6 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Spell (3): Haste

Level 7 (Sorcerer)
Spell (2): Resist Energy
Spell (3): Suggestion

Level 8 (Sorcerer)
Spell (4): Charm Monster

Level 9 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (3): Halt Undead
Spell (4): Phantasmal Killer

Level 10 (Sorcerer)
Spell (5): Hold Monster

Level 11 (Sorcerer)
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (4): Wall of Fire
Spell (5): Dominate Person

Level 12 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Spell (6): Mass Suggestion

Level 13 (Sorcerer)
Spell (4): Fire Shield
Spell (5): Mind Fog
Spell (6): Greater Dispel Magic

Level 14 (Sorcerer)
Spell (7): Otto's Sphere of Dancing

Level 15 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
Spell (5): Cloudkill
Spell (6): Summon Monster VI
Spell (7): Finger of Death

Level 16 (Sorcerer)
Spell (8): Charm Monster, Mass
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Concentration II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Elements III
Enhancement: Sorcerer Lineage of Deadly Elements II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Sorcerer Spell Penetration III
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded IV
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma III

just to note, i dont suggest these spells necessarily exactly at the levels shown. esp siince you want to do summoning, you will need to do quite a bit of juggling while leveling. you prob dont want to wait until high levels to summon, but you dont want to have low level summons when you get to high levels since you can only have 1 or 2 active at any given time. this build allows for nearly all charm spells while still maintaining general party functionality via pk/fod/dancing ball/fw. obviously mass charm monster is still broken , but this is an overall build. can easily sub summon 8 or trap the soul until such time as it is fixed, if ever.