The Shroud: How to solve each puzzle in part 3.

[eyepuppy]

This guide has been added to the compendium: http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Shroud_Part_3

Hey guys! I know a bunch of you were asking how I solve these puzzles so fast every time, so I will fill you in on a little secret. There's a pretty simple algorithm for solving the puzzles in part 3.

Let's start with the 4x4 puzzle because it is cake! In the 4x4 puzzle, you have four rows of lights in four columns. You start by turning all the lights on the first row. To do this, you press the button right below the lights that are off in the first row. Continue doing this to row 2 and 3. That's it. The puzzle will be solved EVERY time.

In the 3x3 puzzle, there is a chance there will be a few lights left off after you chase down the lights. Based off the lights that are off in the bottom row, you will hit a certain combination of lights on the top row. Once you have hit all the lights that need hit on the top row, you will chase the lights down again until all the lights are lit. If all the lights are lit, then you hit the right combination and you have solved the puzzle. If you have lights lift over, then you hit the wrong combination.

The following chart has a list of all the possible combinations that you should see in a 3x3 puzzle after you chase down the lights. The black dots are considered off.



Now that you have the basics and an understanding of the puzzle algorithm, you can now master the 5x5 puzzle. You do the exact same thing you did in the 3x3 puzzle, except you have a new combination of lights. The following chart will tell you the combination of lights to hit in row one based on the lights that are lit in the bottom row. Once you’ve hit the appropriate lights, then you chase the lights down again for the solve! Piece of cake!



For Example:
In a 5x5 puzzle, say you chased down the lights and you were left with this combination in row 5 after all the other lights were on: Off, On, Off, Off, On. The chart says you need to hit light 5 on the top row. Once you hit that light, you chase the lights down and it will be solved. If not, then you messed up somewhere. If too many people are having problms with this, I will try to explain it a little better and maybe put up some better examples.

EDIT: I will try to get a solution made for the round puzzle, but I have only done it once. I have a pretty good idea how to solve it, but I just don't have enough practice at it to say for sure. I guess I'll try to sit down and iron it out after class today.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Nice post!

I'm definitely using this method from now on for the 4x4 - but I think for the other ones I'd probably stick to using my solver

Garth

[jmonty]

good work man.


what about rule number 2?

[Mad_Bombardier]

Very coherent explanation, eyepuppy. I know there's faster ways (less steps) to solve the puzzle using solvers, but I like algorithms, too! Sure beats trial and error.

You do have two minor errors. You say, "the 4x4 and 3x3 are a little different" right after you finish explaining the 4x4s. And you have a set of 6 lights in your example, "off, on, off, off, on, on." I'm pretty sure you just need to drop the last 'on'. Again, great explanation!

[eyepuppy]

Very coherent explanation, eyepuppy. I know there's faster ways (less steps) to solve the puzzle using solvers, but I like algorithms, too! Sure beats trial and error.

You do have two minor errors. You say, "the 4x4 and 3x3 are a little different" right after you finish explaining the 4x4s. And you have a set of 6 lights in your example, "off, on, off, off, on, on." I'm pretty sure you just need to drop the last 'on'. Again, great explanation!

Yes, the solver takes less moves, but more time to solve because you have to alt tab out, enter the info, go back in to check the puzzle, then alt tab to click solve, then hit your solution. This is just a pain unless you have 2 computers.

Also, the example I put up is an example of a 5x5 puzzle. I will edit and state that to avoid confusion. It's meant to give an example at how to use the charts.

[trptim]

Great guide.
For 4x4, I tested it using the solver and it kept failing.
I then hit solve on those, and there were no solutions

So hopefully DDO has something in place to always have solutions, which the solver doesn't have

Crossing my fingers for 4x4 everytime, so I don't have to think

[Mad_Bombardier]

Back on topic. These two typos still exist in the OP.

You do have two minor errors.
1) You say, "the 4x4 and 3x3 are a little different" right after you finish explaining the 4x4s "solved EVERY time."
2) And you have a set of 6 lights in your example, "off, on, off, off, on, on." I'm pretty sure you just need to drop the last 'on'. Again, great explanation!

[eyepuppy]

Back on topic. These two typos still exist in the OP.

Bah, I fixed them. In my defense though, the second that was not really a typo. I was merely saying that the 4x4 and 3x3 puzzles were similar to solve. That was true and it makes sense to say after I posted how to solve the 4x4 puzzle so people could make a connection with the 3x3.

Anyway, back on to the "solver" debate. I don't like solvers myself. I use this method, but I figured out the method and solution (well most of it). This is the same method I used to solve these puzzles when my mother gave me my first lights out game when I was almost 10. I only found 4 of the 5x5 combinations. There are somewhere around 30 combinations of lights that could be left on the bottom row, so I started down the line and figured out which combinations worked with what light sets. It took forever (I was doing it on paper during analog class!). After I found 4 of them, I went online to see if anyone else had an algorithm that would solve lights out like this. I was fortunate to fine that there were many other sources of people that had the same solution. I was also happy to learn that there were only 3 more possibilities for solutions. The 3x3 puzzles I had to find on my own. This leaves you with 7 solutions for 5x5 and 7 solutions for 3x3.

Now, calling this a solver is I guess true in a sense. I fell that people using this method will at least be using their brain more than if they are using the solver. If I posted the algorithm and just told people to hit random spaces on the top row, most people would just give up and use the solver. When people actually use this method, they will begin to see patterns and understand how the puzzle works. I hope so at least!

In my opinion, if you use this method without using the cheat sheet, then it's not a solver. Once you use the cheat sheet though, it becomes a solver. I would still prefer people to use this method because you are at least using your brain more than pressing on random spots.

As a side note: Sorry if anyone already posted this. I don't check the forums much. This is probably only my 4th post ever! I checked to see if their was a guide in the user guide section. I didn't see one off hand so I posted one. Sorry for any double posting, but this should have been where you put it so people could fine it

[aldan]

Nice post!

I'm definitely using this method from now on for the 4x4 - but I think for the other ones I'd probably stick to using my solver

Garth

You dont need the solver, this is easy. I posted the same thing right after my first raid back a few weeks ago, this looks like the same thread just put into the strategy guide.

You have to turn all the lights on for the puzzle to work. Its real easy.

[itsmezed72]

Hey guys! I know a bunch of you were asking how I solve these puzzles so fast every time, so I will fill you in on a little secret. There's a pretty simple algorithm for solving the puzzles in part 3.

Let's start with the 4x4 puzzle because it is cake! In the 4x4 puzzle, you have four rows of lights in four columns. You start by turning all the lights on the first row. To do this, you press the button right below the lights that are off in the first row. Continue doing this to row 2 and 3. That's it. The puzzle will be solved EVERY time.

In the 3x3 puzzle, there is a chance there will be a few lights left off after you chase down the lights. Based off the lights that are off in the bottom row, you will hit a certain combination of lights on the top row. Once you have hit all the lights that need hit on the top row, you will chase the lights down again until all the lights are lit. If all the lights are lit, then you hit the right combination and you have solved the puzzle. If you have lights lift over, then you hit the wrong combination.

Call me dim, but 'press the buttons BELOW the lights in the first row'? And what does 'chase down the lights' mean?

[eyepuppy]

Call me dim, but 'press the buttons BELOW the lights in the first row'? And what does 'chase down the lights' mean?

Sorry for the late reply, but I don't check the forums very often.

You start by looking at the puzzle from any side. It doesn't matter what side you use, it only matters that you use that side as the point of reference. Now that you have a side you will work from, the side farthest away from you is row 1, followed by row 2 and so on. In row one, you will see a series of lights on or off. The object is to light all the lights in the top row. To do this, you just need to press on the button in the row below row 1 where the lights are off. For example, if the lights were "on, off, on, on, off," you would hit buttons 2 and 5 in row 2. This turns on all the lights in row 1. Now that you have row 1 all lit up, you work on row 2 (this is chasing the lights down). If the lights in row two were, "off, on, off, off, off," Then you would hit buttons 1, 3, 4, and 5. This will turn all the lights in part 2 on. You will do the same for rows 3 and 4 then. Once you get to the fifth row, you need to consult the chart to figure out what buttons to press in order to solve the puzzle. For instance, if lights 1, 2, and 3 are lit on the bottom row, all you need to hit in the top row is button 2 and solve the puzzle again.

It's kind of complicated, but it works a lot faster than the solver once you have everything memorized. Hope this helps.

[eyepuppy]

bump, just to keep this on the new boards

[eyepuppy]

I added this page to the compendium. Take a gander here: http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Shroud_Part_3

Hope to see you guys in game soon!

[Riggs]

Yay for making puzzles easier.

I hate puzzles, I dont play DDO to need to run puzzles - if I LIKED puzzles I would play other games with puzzles in them - like Tomb Raider or something.

So whether it is a solver, or a method - awesome. DDO can spend more time making monster AI better and more challenging and less time finding new puzzles to annoy puzzle challenged players with.

Life is enough of a puzzle, DDO is for bashing bad guys. (Well for me anyway)

Dont feed the trolls by responding to them.

*edit - to quote Wobert "Solvers are for the weak!"

*my reply "Your rogue should stay out of lava more often...."

[Toronus]

Please correct me if I'm wrong here but... D&D wasn't/isn't a pen and paper game? So by using our computers vs. our imaginations we are all doomed to going senile and eat pudding? And unless you plug your modem into yerrr BUTT and use your "Superior puzzle solving intellect" to respond to this without the use of a computer, you will have used a tool/cheat to do so! Dude get a life!

[Anderei]

I see the circular is yet missing in this otherwise great OP (and IMHO a bit boring discussion). Definietly going to printout or handcopy-paste the 3x3 and 5x5 bottom->top sheets. I don't like to switch application or use the ingame browser, but a nice human-do-able algorithmn maybe with a piece of sheet is perfect.

At the circle trying your best with basic intuitiveness, you always come easily to a point where only one is unlight, when you aren't lucky and is solves outright:

(Yellow is the point jumped upon)

First, jump on the unlight one:

  * * 
*     *
*     *
  * o

Now continue at either one of the unlight to light it, again pretty intuative, Ill take the bottom left clockwise, other way around works just as well:

  * * 
*     *
*     o
  o *

  * * 
o     *
o     o
  * *

  o *
*     *
*     o
  * *

  * o 
*     o
*     o
  * *

  * *
*     *
*     *
  * *

[Thrudh]

Good guide OP

In the 3x3 puzzle, there is a chance there will be a few lights left off after you chase down the lights. Based off the lights that are off in the bottom row, you will hit a certain combination of lights on the top row. Once you have hit all the lights that need hit on the top row, you will chase the lights down again until all the lights are lit.

FYI... The 3x3s are even easier than this... Solve down... if it doesn't solve then solve the other direction... if it doesn't solve, then solve the other direction again... and it will definitely solve by then.

So you light up the first row, then the second row... doesn't matter what the last row looks like... Without touching the last row, make it the top row in your mind and light it up by stepping on the second row tiles... then light up the second row by stepping on the third row tiles... It may just solve right there, but it doesn't just solve the opposite direction again. Again, without touching the third row, make it the first row in your mind, and light up by jumping on the second row tiles... solve down...

Now that I read that, it sounds more complicated than the OP, but if you can figure out what I meant, it's somewhat faster than looking at a chart... Just solve down, didn't work? Solve the other way. Still didn't work? Solve the first way again... 3x3s always solve after 3 passes at it...

I still use a chart like the OP posted for 5x5s though...

[Anderei]

FYI... The 3x3s are even easier than this... Solve down... if it doesn't solve then solve the other direction... if it doesn't solve, then solve the other direction again... and it will definitely solve by then.

Way cool!

[sabastion01]

This guide has been added to the compendium: http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Shroud_Part_3

Hey guys! I know a bunch of you were asking how I solve these puzzles so fast every time, so I will fill you in on a little secret. There's a pretty simple algorithm for solving the puzzles in part 3.

Let's start with the 4x4 puzzle because it is cake! In the 4x4 puzzle, you have four rows of lights in four columns. You start by turning all the lights on the first row. To do this, you press the button right below the lights that are off in the first row. Continue doing this to row 2 and 3. That's it. The puzzle will be solved EVERY time.

In the 3x3 puzzle, there is a chance there will be a few lights left off after you chase down the lights. Based off the lights that are off in the bottom row, you will hit a certain combination of lights on the top row. Once you have hit all the lights that need hit on the top row, you will chase the lights down again until all the lights are lit. If all the lights are lit, then you hit the right combination and you have solved the puzzle. If you have lights lift over, then you hit the wrong combination.

The following chart has a list of all the possible combinations that you should see in a 3x3 puzzle after you chase down the lights. The black dots are considered off.



Now that you have the basics and an understanding of the puzzle algorithm, you can now master the 5x5 puzzle. You do the exact same thing you did in the 3x3 puzzle, except you have a new combination of lights. The following chart will tell you the combination of lights to hit in row one based on the lights that are lit in the bottom row. Once you’ve hit the appropriate lights, then you chase the lights down again for the solve! Piece of cake!



For Example:
In a 5x5 puzzle, say you chased down the lights and you were left with this combination in row 5 after all the other lights were on: Off, On, Off, Off, On. The chart says you need to hit light 5 on the top row. Once you hit that light, you chase the lights down and it will be solved. If not, then you messed up somewhere. If too many people are having problms with this, I will try to explain it a little better and maybe put up some better examples.

EDIT: I will try to get a solution made for the round puzzle, but I have only done it once. I have a pretty good idea how to solve it, but I just don't have enough practice at it to say for sure. I guess I'll try to sit down and iron it out after class today.

excellent job...has given me new found understanding and confidence in solving shroud puzzles when group completion depends so much on speed...I don't care what the idiot, role-playing, perma-death, over critical person says.

If you would include a 6x6 you would have scored a 10 out of a 1-10...for now ill have to give you a 9.0

[Habreno]

Concerning the last 5x5 combination. I am not quite understanding it; when I have tried it in solvers I have not been able to get a reliable result. Can this combination be explained to me? It is the one missing from the chart on the OP.