Please remove craft alters from raid [suggestion]

[ENGRAV0]

Just a thought, but perhaps, if the alters to Craft in were located at the main entrance it wouldn't be too bad. Unless of course you did the raid for completion, then you would have to wait until timer resets once you have exited the RAID. Just move all three back to the beginning section. I have seriously given consideration to what placing them in meridia would do, and came up with goods, and bads. Somewhat an equal ground there, so figured this might be a better suggestion to placing them around town. This is of course, only an idea, but then you could complete the Raia, get your loot, DDoor back to the beginning, craft (Or exit) and obtain your reward. This way, no one would "HAVE" to wait for you to complete, and you wouldn't have to wait on anyone else. They could do anything they wanted, and not delay others.

This is also accesable ONNLY if you have gained access to the raid, so control is maintained.

[Pellegro]

Great idea.

Move the first 2 altars out of the raid and put them in Meridia or the 12.

This would take minimal dev time ... you're just cutting and pasting an object.

Advantages:
- If you're trying to craft, you're no longer rushed. You don't have to feel like everyone is waiting on you.
- If you're not crafting, you don't have to wait while someone else is rushing through to try and get it "right".
- It'd be a gathering place for the most uberest leetsters to hang. Heh. And for the rest of us to gather and say "can you help me do 'x'" etc.

Leave the last altar in the raid for flavor.

2 thumbs up from me.

[Drider]

The Power Shards already ensure that you have to run the raid (and reach the appropriate point) in order to craft your item.

The only thing having the altar in the raid does is add a big logistical nightmare to people's raiding runs. (And, I suppose, there's a bit of 'flavor' involved.)

Negative.. You don't have to beat the raid to get top tier items.. they drop after part 4.

Meaning that you could run just part 1-4 without ever having to beat the raid to get your loot.

We actually run 1-4 for ingredients then when we have enough to upgrade a few people to top tier then we run completion.

[GuitarHero]

Even though this is prototype crafting, I would prepare yourself. Given everything the Devs have done in the past it seems likely that the crafting system, even once the "real" one is implemented, is going to focus mainly on running quests and getting ingredients.

DDO is a game where you do quests. If you don't want to do that, you should probably find another game.

Running quests to get ingredients is fine. I don't mind that at all, though its not founded in DnD crafting, but MMO crafting (again, fine with it.) But in most MMO's i've played in, its more like, "Hmmm, can't find a party? Guess i'll make some arrows. Ok, got some arrows, and there's a group looking for a tank, i think i'll put up my fletching gear and sign up." I know this isn't most MMOs, but you shouldn't have to find a RAID group to even get a shot at crafting!

[MysticTheurge]

...but you shouldn't have to find a RAID group to even get a shot at crafting!

Right, it seems unlikely the regular crafting will require as much raiding. But I do still suspect it will require questing. So if you haven't already collected materials from previous quests it seems like there won't be a lot you can do while waiting for a group.

At least, that's if Adamantine Ritual is any indication of the direction things are heading.

[BlueLightBandit]

DDO is a game where you do quests. If you don't want to do that, you should probably find another game.

Sig-worthy.

The crafting devices are in the Shroud because the technology they use comes from the other dimensions... That's why the portals are so close to the Twelve, because the members of the Twelve have been doing their homework studying these "Rituals" that by name-sake of being a ritual, happen fairly regularly on the other planes.

Since they happen regularly on other planes, those invading hordes have set up these altars so that they can perform their own rituals when they "land" and don't have to pick up their Wizardry VI items from that stupid carousel that always seems to leave scuff marks on MY luggage. I can only imagine what kind of complications I'd have checking an Acid Blast Maul through customs.

It's very much... "flavor", as is 99% of the rest of the game. Save the Temple of Vol snafu.

[bobbryan2]

I posted this in a thread a while back.

The altar at the very end should stay. It works well, the party doesn't care how long you take to craft after the entire thing is beaten.

The first two altars stink. Everything suddenly grinds to a halt. People start going afk left and right... one invariably takes longer to get back than the person that was actually crafting. It's almost the equivalent of trying to get everyone ready from scratch to start the raid again.

Sometimes it works great, one person makes his item... knows exactly what to put in, and you only waste 2-3 minutes. Other times... it lasts 10 times that long. It's just bad design to subject you to having to upgrade items in the very middle of the raid. Like it or not... this raid isn't 5 different quests. The whole thing can be done in a limited amount of time, but not with incessant tinkering in between.

Just have the first two altars in some room in the twelve. It's not like you can use them without running the raid anyway.

[Vorn]

/signed

It is not fun waiting around 10-20+ minutes while folks are crafting at the various altars. Keep the ultimate altar if you like, but please consider moving the earlier ones to an alternate location.

[BlueLightBandit]

So be prepared to wait a few minutes... I've never waited longer than 5 minutes at one of the crafting points. The longest part is actually explaining the two step process... the crafting itself takes just a few seconds.

I'm not seeing why people are having a hard time with a break in between the chapters. I mean, you want to rush-rush-rush so you can... get back in to rush it again? I mean, six times and you're ransacked, whether it takes a day or three... if you're so upset with the concept of waiting on other people start your own group and specify "no crafting" or "zergs-R-us" or something equally obnoxious to keep all us slowpokes out.

[sirgog]

Definitely /signed.

The most hated quest in Mod 6 is Coalescence Chamber and why? It's because half the group goes AFK for an extended period once in every second run while someone collects the person that fell. Lots of dull time for the majority of the party.

The Shroud is similar. Long periods of downtime bore the hell out of me, and someone crafting is usually about 5 minutes of downtime for the whole group.

Were I a smoker, I'd probably have a different perspective on this.


It's worth noting that this change would have one impact on play - you could craft a twice-upgraded item without ever succeeding at Part 3 of the raid. But given that the only failure I've ever seen or heard of in part 3 occurred when 11 of the 12 in the raid had never seen it before and didn't know what the crystals were, I doubt that'll change much.

I do, however, support keeping the Altar of Devastation in the quest. That makes completion of the whole raid mandatory to get a final upgrade.

[Heladron]

Even though this is prototype crafting, I would prepare yourself. Given everything the Devs have done in the past it seems likely that the crafting system, even once the "real" one is implemented, is going to focus mainly on running quests and getting ingredients.

DDO is a game where you do quests. If you don't want to do that, you should probably find another game.

I think it's a neat concept that you'd have to go into a dungeon to find ingredients, but I also like the idea of having crafting be a diversion when you don't have a lot of time to quest or just want to do something to break up the monotony.

Run quests to find ingredients and then craft in some instance with the eldritch devices at your leasure.

EQII had a pretty decent crafting system and I liked that you could go into an instance and use the equipment to make stuff. I chose the provisioner path in EQII so I'd always have the good food and drink.

I liked that, in EQII, you could buy recipe books and they were level restricted so you couldn't just start crafting high level items without first getting the experience. If memory servers me correctly you also had to have the recipe book to even be able to craft the items. It's been two or more years though since I left that game to play DDO.

EQII managed the level of crafting ingredients by putting them in the various level zones. I always thought it was fun and often used my bard to sneak around and get crafting ingredients for my crafting characters. Collecting ingredients added variety and they could do something similar in DDO where they scaled ingredients with the loot tables in already existing dungeons.

[MysticTheurge]

I'm not seeing why people are having a hard time with a break in between the chapters. I mean, you want to rush-rush-rush so you can... get back in to rush it again? I mean, six times and you're ransacked, whether it takes a day or three... if you're so upset with the concept of waiting on other people start your own group and specify "no crafting" or "zergs-R-us" or something equally obnoxious to keep all us slowpokes out.

It's not about "zerging" it's about wanting to actually quest instead of waiting for your group to do a bunch of other stuff, and how the current system gives people no other choice but to force everyone else to wait for them.

It's really kind of the same problem that Co6 has, where everyone consistently needs to go repair/sell/rest at the boat and it slows everyone down. Only now there are 12 people and if you want to do the thing in question, ever, you have to make everyone else wait.

I just want to do the quest(s). How does that make me a zerger?

[Yajerman01]

I have run the new raid several times now, and every time we hit an alter it seems that the pace grinds to a halt. Last night while at the first alter, we waited 20 minutes (and then I waited even longer when an orthon one-shotted me and I was shunted to the penalty box). I can't see how it would adversely affect the game if we simply removed the alters from the raid itself, and just let us do this on our own time. To make sure that we are getting to the proper point to upgrade add to the chests a special item that will allow us to make the upgrade. Then you can take back what you earned, and upgrade later, instead of dragging out the process to a 20 minute break as everyone trades items and looks through the recipes.

I like going to be before midnight.

I totally agree that you will get the guy that is "unprepared", meaning he has to look at the recipe, look in his bag, etc, etc. This is boring, time consuming and sometimes downright annoying.

But I try to work with what we have. As such, Before we jump into a raid, or as I build a group, I remind everyone that they need to have their items prepared/ready to use at the alter and set a timer say, 3 minutes. If your ready, 3 minutes is more then enough time to make your item. THERE IS NO EXCUSE!

Prepping before a raid makes all the difference.

[Wizzly_Bear]

It's not about "zerging" it's about wanting to actually quest instead of waiting for your group to do a bunch of other stuff, and how the current system gives people no other choice but to force everyone else to wait for them.

It's really kind of the same problem that Co6 has, where everyone consistently needs to go repair/sell/rest at the boat and it slows everyone down. Only now there are 12 people and if you want to do the thing in question, ever, you have to make everyone else wait.

I just want to do the quest(s). How does that make me a zerger?

qft

[oronisi]

How about making it where you can travel around freely in the area after the raid is completed? That way a party can craft on the run OR come back to it after whatshisname dies.

^^ Now this is a good idea

[nbhs275]

I think it has something to do with keeping people from making items for lower level characters by simply running them through it once.

[MysticTheurge]

I think it has something to do with keeping people from making items for lower level characters by simply running them through it once.

The items still require bound shards which you have to get in the raid.

Plus, the items are all ML 12 (or will be soon).

[nbhs275]

So be prepared to wait a few minutes... I've never waited longer than 5 minutes at one of the crafting points. The longest part is actually explaining the two step process... the crafting itself takes just a few seconds.

I'm not seeing why people are having a hard time with a break in between the chapters. I mean, you want to rush-rush-rush so you can... get back in to rush it again? I mean, six times and you're ransacked, whether it takes a day or three... if you're so upset with the concept of waiting on other people start your own group and specify "no crafting" or "zergs-R-us" or something equally obnoxious to keep all us slowpokes out.

The problem isnt waiting a few minutes, its waiting the 15-20 minutes for the guy who is going to look for the recipe, bargain with everyone in the group for 1-2 item, then make every piece at the rate of a snail. I think its just common sense to get your recipe figured out before you go run the quest, and put the pieces together as you get them, that way when you get them all finished, you only have to slap together a few pieces and be done.

[Dane_McArdy]

There really isn't anything wrong with this suggestion. The one I like is the ability to enter the shroud after a raid. I would have to say you need to have successfully completed part 1 to use the first alter. And part three to use the second alter and of course part 5 to use the third. Or just give the device in Meridia to do the combines, if the person has completed those parts.

While I haven't seen it happen, where someone took too long, it is possible for it to become an issue.