Please remove craft alters from raid [suggestion]

[MysticTheurge]

Personally, to me, this isn't crafting in the slightest. Its "if you know the right recipes, you can pick your own raid loot." Yeah, I want crafting, but this isn't it. You have to be in a high tier of the playerbase to even remotely call this crafting. Crafting should be the diversion, and the sidenote to adventure, and something you do during downtime. You shouldn't have to grind a raid to be able to craft.

Even though this is prototype crafting, I would prepare yourself. Given everything the Devs have done in the past it seems likely that the crafting system, even once the "real" one is implemented, is going to focus mainly on running quests and getting ingredients.

DDO is a game where you do quests. If you don't want to do that, you should probably find another game.

[Petro]

I just ask if it's cool if I craft for a bit. If the party gets antsy I just gather my ingredients up and do some more on the next run.

[Mindspat]

Wow. Well, as you wanted to be sure to never invite me to a run of yours, can you please indicate your alts? I don't want to ever have someone in my party that's going to intentionally sabotogue a Raid.

No worries, I don't have any alts and I wouldn't do that to anyone.

The runs I've been on were always quite clear. Either it was expressed before hand "first part only" or "no crafting". I've never had to wait more then 5 minutes in between parts which is a welcomed break for food and drink.

[Vengenance]

/signed

Please fix this and allow people to craft these in another location.

[Nestorious]

Although I dont truly expect to see a change in this, but moving the first two at least I think would clear a whole lot of headaches as everyone attritions through the crafting experience. I think it is particularly frustrating for the ppl who are still waiting to construct thier green steel item and find themselves sitting in an instance for 15-20 min at a time. Gives me a chance for a cig personally but I know there are a number who would like them moved.

/signed

[Dane_McArdy]

Well having spent all weekend running the raid, and having gotten my weapon upgraded twice, and others did as well, no one got upset any of the times when anyone was crafting, but no one took 20+ minutes.

In fact, one person was, I don't want to waste more of peoples time, and we all told him to shut up and do it, cause we all wanted to see what he got. And everyone was very generous, and traded or gave craft items to each other, because I only needed one item to craft my first part, and ended up ransacked without it.

But yes, I do see this as a potential problem. And think that something could be done to allow raid item crafting outside of the raid. At the same time, I see those moments after a section 1 and 3 as a good time to take a good break, as getting from 1 to 3 can be pretty intense.

[ArkoHighStar]

Remove the first 2 and leave the last one in the raid so that tier 3 weapons must be built within the raid, since the raid is over nobody will care how long you are in there.

[Razvan]

Personally, to me, this isn't crafting in the slightest. Its "if you know the right recipes, you can pick your own raid loot." Yeah, I want crafting, but this isn't it. You have to be in a high tier of the playerbase to even remotely call this crafting. Crafting should be the diversion, and the sidenote to adventure, and something you do during downtime. You shouldn't have to grind a raid to be able to craft.

OMG I'm going to cry: No, it is not crafting as you are used to from EQ2 or whatever...It is CRAFT YOUR OWN RAID LOOOOOOOOOOT...and at the same time a taste for the crafting system to come where you will find ingredients in most (if not all) chests and be able to craft in the Marketplace tent or House K bank....this is (like the famous line goes) just a "taste of things to come".

IT IS CRAFTING YOUR RAID LOOT...specifically, your SHROUD RAID LOOT!!!!!!

/rant off
there, I feel better!

[Wizzly_Bear]

I have run the new raid several times now, and every time we hit an alter it seems that the pace grinds to a halt. Last night while at the first alter, we waited 20 minutes (and then I waited even longer when an orthon one-shotted me and I was shunted to the penalty box). I can't see how it would adversely affect the game if we simply removed the alters from the raid itself, and just let us do this on our own time. To make sure that we are getting to the proper point to upgrade add to the chests a special item that will allow us to make the upgrade. Then you can take back what you earned, and upgrade later, instead of dragging out the process to a 20 minute break as everyone trades items and looks through the recipes.

I like going to be before midnight.

like this idea
/signed

you could always "accidently" activate the next portal.

you could, but only the entry one is timed so it really has no effect on speed of crating individuals

[Sharzade]

I hope the altars stay in the raid, so I'm /not signing.

If a raid leader doesn't want his raid to be held up with players crafting, he can state in his LFM that it's a quick run for ingredients. The same applies for the leader who wants a crafting run. He can state that players who join must be prepared to wait while players craft. It probably just needs to be established from the start what kind of raid is being done; crafting or harvesting. Frankly with time, I think players are gonna become quite quick and adept at crafting, so the wait around time will become less and less.

Moving the altars outside the raid may enable players to create raid loot items without investing real effort into the raid. They'd be able to buy their various altar ingredients from the plat farmers via the AH, and then make their raid items. I suppose they could get around that by having the ingredients bind on acquire, but I like to be able to trade them.

It's complicated.

Cheers,

Sharzade

[LOUDRampart]

I think finding the items with which you need to craft in the quest is fine. I agree with the OP that the crafting mechanisms should be outside the quest instances. Put them in Meridia or Stormreach please.

[Chelsa]

The system is fine as it is. People will get faster at it. Leaders can post in LFM's what kind of raid they are running. Why waste a bunch of development time on something we can solve by simple communication.

[Mhykke]

I hope the altars stay in the raid, so I'm /not signing.

If a raid leader doesn't want his raid to be held up with players crafting, he can state in his LFM that it's a quick run for ingredients. The same applies for the leader who wants a crafting run. He can state that players who join must be prepared to wait while players craft. It probably just needs to be established from the start what kind of raid is being done; crafting or harvesting. Frankly with time, I think players are gonna become quite quick and adept at crafting, so the wait around time will become less and less.

Moving the altars outside the raid may enable players to create raid loot items without investing real effort into the raid. They'd be able to buy their various altar ingredients from the plat farmers via the AH, and then make their raid items. I suppose they could get around that by having the ingredients bind on acquire, but I like to be able to trade them.

It's complicated.

Cheers,

Sharzade

Again, for the 3rd or 4th time in this thread:

Power shards bind on aquire. You need to do the raid to get these shards. There's NO other way to get these shards but by being in the raid for each respective part for the various tiers of power shards.

Please explain how taking altars out would allow people to create loot without investing in the raid (include power shards in your explanation.)

[Sharzade]

I like the crafting of raid loot to be in the raid quest. And yes, I also know that the shards bind. I've been enjoying crafting items in the raid very much indeed! I haven't really seen any compelling reasons to move the crafting of raid loot out of the raid yet.

Cheers,

Sharzade

[Chelsa]

Again, for the 3rd or 4th time in this thread:

Power shards bind on aquire. You need to do the raid to get these shards. There's NO other way to get these shards but by being in the raid for each respective part for the various tiers of power shards.

Please explain how taking altars out would allow people to create loot without investing in the raid (include power shards in your explanation.)

It was explained. You just don't like the answer.

Some people believe you should have to be in the raid to make an item.

I personally think the system is great.

[liamfrancais]

While you are at it there are like 8 stop lights on my way home from work can you remove them so I can get home quicker or if not remove them at least have them always be green for Me.

Seriously though if the people have the proper ingredients and are ready to go when they reach the alter it should take only a few extra minutes. Use the time before the quest while you are waiting for a cleric to have people get things ready and trade.

[Sharzade]

Frankly, one of the best things I've experienced about crafting raidloot in the raid while everyone is together, is that we get more help that way. Sometimes I've been able to help someone with an ingredient they need, or visa versa. It's one of the plus sides to having a large group stay together during the crafting process. If the altars are moved out of the raid, it might inadvertently stop players from being able to get as much help/trading/input as they could have, because they're now doing their crafting alone.

Anyway, in time the devs will look at the pros and cons of all arguments and make their own decision. We should just keep it light in the meanwhile.

Cheers, Hearts, Flowers,

Sharzade

[adamkatt]

Personally, to me, this isn't crafting in the slightest. Its "if you know the right recipes, you can pick your own raid loot." Yeah, I want crafting, but this isn't it. You have to be in a high tier of the playerbase to even remotely call this crafting. Crafting should be the diversion, and the sidenote to adventure, and something you do during downtime. You shouldn't have to grind a raid to be able to craft.

I agree.

[Xaymaca]

First of all, I'd like to say that I've played three other Turbine games before: Asherons Call, Asherons Call II, and Lord of the Rings Online. Believe me, Turbine knows how to make a crafting module, and it's nothing like what we are doing now. Sure there were ingredients...always, but there was never a requirement to combine them inside a dungeon/raid. This is new, and will not be the norm when we get regular crafting. If you want to see Turbine's crafting at hand, try LotRO trial. It's really good.

I have mixed feelings on having the crafting alters in Meridia/12/Market.

On one hand, they make for a bit of "flavor" in the quest, that you can only craft when you accomplish that part of the quest. It gives a sense of anticipation and accomplishment. You are making your own raid loot, so it makes sense to only be able to make it inside the raid.

On the other hand, it would make the turnaround time faster when doing the raid (or faster to ransacked status).

I've noticed that all of my groups that are waiting on someone crafting have been very patient.

I think there should be some ettiquette for crafting inside the raid:
1) Have your recipes written out ahead of time (even Alt-Tabbing to the forums takes extra time). Know what you want to craft and what ingredients you need to craft it.
2) Be willing to trade with others for ingredients. I have not seen one item that is more rare than others, though there is that perception. Trade base for base, small for small, medium for medium, if you can spare it.
3) If you start a raid as an ingredients run only (i.e. no crafting), say so in the LFM note, so there is no confusion when somebody finally gets that last piece of the pie they needed for their upgrade.

[Kerr]

Frankly, one of the best things I've experienced about crafting raidloot in the raid while everyone is together, is that we get more help that way. Sometimes I've been able to help someone with an ingredient they need, or visa versa. It's one of the plus sides to having a large group stay together during the crafting process. If the altars are moved out of the raid, it might inadvertently stop players from being able to get as much help/trading/input as they could have, because they're now doing their crafting alone.

*Guild Chat* Anyone have a small scale for crafting I could have or trade for?
*Guild Buddy* Sure, it's in the mail.
*Guild Chat* Thanks!

How is that any different? Even General emotes can be used to ask for trading. There really is no benefit to having the entire raid grind to a halt for those two altars. I don't mind waiting, but it's just more time efficient to let people craft on their own time. The final altar should be left in the Raid though as once it's over, anyone not crafting can just leave.