Concentration Skill Check - broken?

[Mindspat]

Please explain the following combat log associated with a Concentration skill check:

(Combat): Fiend-Blood Troglodyte Theurge's ball lightning hit you for 37 points of electric damage.
(Combat): You attempt to save versus ball lightning. You roll a 2 (+23): save!
(Combat): You make a Concentration skill check. You roll a 10 (+40): failure!

There was nothing other then the Fiend-Blood Trog Theurge to interfere with casting. I was stationary, shield blocking, and attemping to cast Cloudkill.

Currently, I notice all kinds of inconsistent results when required to make a Concetration check. For the time being I am concluding that Concentration Checks are broken.

It's possible I do not understand how Concetration is supposed to work since I am attempting to apply logic to it.

Note: this occured in Coelesence Chamber(sp) on normal.

[Angelus_dead]

Please explain the following combat log associated with a Concentration skill check:

(Combat): Fiend-Blood Troglodyte Theurge's ball lightning hit you for 37 points of electric damage.
(Combat): You attempt to save versus ball lightning. You roll a 2 (+23): save!
(Combat): You make a Concentration skill check. You roll a 10 (+40): failure!

There was nothing other then the Fiend-Blood Trog Theurge to interfere with casting. I was stationary, shield blocking, and attemping to cast Cloudkill.

First off, Shield-blocking while casting is IMPOSSIBLE. You were not blocking (not that your shield would have any effect on damage from lightning).

As to why you failed... the check DC is 10 + 5 Cloudkill level + 37 damage = 52. You rolled 10+40 = 50, which fails the concentration check.

Simple as that. If you're rolled a 12+, you'd have passed.

[Mindspat]

DC is 10 + 5 Cloudkill level + 37 damage = 52. You rolled 10+40 = 50, which fails the concentration check.

Simple as that. If you're rolled a 12+, you'd have passed.

Caster levels and offensive spells such as Ball Lightning have no impact upon this and it's soley based upon the spell level being attempted?

And thankyou for the otherwise quick responce eventhough it's a bit pompous.

[dragnmoon]

Caster levels and offensive spells such as Ball Lightning have no impact upon this and it's soley based upon the spell level being attempted?

Concentration Check DC Is based on a Base of 10 + Level of Spell being cast + Dmg received during the casting of the spell.

A d20 + Your concentration skill is rolled.

Because of the massive amounts of Dmg in DDO and it is very Difficult to pass a Concentration check, One of the reasons people take Quicken spell feat is because When you have quicken on your spells can not be disrupted.

[Helmet]

the only reason people take Quicken spell feat is because When you have quicken on your spells can not be disrupted.

fixed

[Ithrani]

Caster levels and offensive spells such as Ball Lightning have no impact upon this and it's soley based upon the spell level being attempted?

And thankyou for the otherwise quick responce eventhough it's a bit pompous.

Wow, you don't even know what your saying. The spell level refers to the spell your casting, not your opponent. Simple things like that are know by PnP players. It should be known by online players too.

[Impaqt]

Caster levels and offensive spells such as Ball Lightning have no impact upon this and it's soley based upon the spell level being attempted?

And thankyou for the otherwise quick responce eventhough it's a bit pompous.

If anything was Pomppus, it was the Proclamation that The Check was Broken rather than asking for clarification on how it worked.

[PhoenixRajoNight]

Wow, you don't even know what your saying. The spell level refers to the spell your casting, not your opponent. Simple things like that are know by PnP players. It should be known by online players too.

hes talking about the caster level your casting cloudkill at. I dunno if they work the same in the online but things like maximize empower extend etc increase the spell level of the cast taking up a slot of a higher lvl spell, theres not slotting system like this in ddo so i dunno if it would still count as a higher level spell, but spells with variables relating to caster lvl are considered in most cases in pnp as a spell of that level being cast. As I said I think this is what hes getting to is the lvl of the spell for making a concentration check 10+spell lvl+damage dealt or is it 10+casting spell lvl+damage dealt.

[stockwizard5]

Concentration Check DC Is based on a Base of 10 + Level of Spell being cast + Dmg received during the casting of the spell.

A d20 + Your concentration skill is rolled.

Because of the massive amounts of Dmg in DDO and it is very Difficult to pass a Concentration check, One of the reasons people take Quicken spell feat is because When you have quicken on your spells can not be disrupted.

This does not agree with some testing I did a few days ago ... I was using the archers in Coalescence, wearing the bramble casters, and casting blade barrier (whick takes FOREVER) ... I was currently running +41 Concentration and still having mixed results not getting interupted ... the important issue is MULTIPLE checks per cast - so what triggers a check vs what?

Each Hit?
Each Hit for Damage vs Damage?
Each Hit for Damage vs Sum of Damage?
Each Hit for Damage vs Type?
Each Hit for Damage vs Sum of Type?

Once Sum of Damage?
Once Sum of Damage vs Sum of Type Type?

Before DR?
After DR?

Note: What Resists/Protections?

[MysticTheurge]

When you have quicken on your spells can not be disrupted.

This is not entirely accurate.

With Quicken on, you don't have to make any concentration checks. Your spells can still be disrupted by other means, such as being hit mid-cast with a beholder's Anti-magic cone, or being tripped while casting.

[MysticTheurge]

Each Hit?
Each Hit for Damage vs Damage?
Each Hit for Damage vs Sum of Damage?
Each Hit for Damage vs Type?
Each Hit for Damage vs Sum of Type?

Each hit that deals damage generates a concentration check.

I'm not 100% sure how spells like Scorching Ray (that are a single spell that does multiple hits) work. In theory it should be a separate check for each ray.

Once Sum of Damage?
Once Sum of Damage vs Sum of Type Type?

The damage for the single hit that cause the check.

Before DR?
After DR?

Note: What Resists/Protections?

After DR and Resists. The check is based on actual damage taken. (Or should be, there was some debate on whether DDO was working properly in this regard a while back.)

[Mindspat]

Wow, you don't even know what your saying. The spell level refers to the spell your casting, not your opponent. Simple things like that are know by PnP players. It should be known by online players too.

Why is it that a lot of the posters in these forums reply with flames or trolls?

I present a question and express my complete lack of understanding nor do I play pen and paper. As a matter of fact, this is absolutely NOTHING like the pen & paper of AD&D I had played.

Simple is relative.

[stockwizard5]

And hence why I (and I assume others) are getting confused ...

Although I was getting pepered with arrows - with the brambles it was for single digit numbers with a +41 concentration ... SO ... why was I ever failing a check?

Is a 1 auto-failure (although I was still failing on checks that looked like 3+41 = fail)? Something does appear wrong here with either the calculation (listed above) or the implementation?

[Mindspat]

If anything was Pomppus, it was the Proclamation that The Check was Broken rather than asking for clarification on how it worked.

Reading comprehension?

I somewhat recall questioning if it were broken (see question mark in thread topic) and stating "I do not understand how Concetration is supposed to work".

I think less people know how to reply to a thread then there are those who know how Concetration works. Maybe there's relavance to this then an ingame difficulty check; Concenrate.

And,

Obviously it is a broken mechanic in function. The damage is way too high and scaled far above a pnp rule mechanism. Instead of getting a +1 to a concetration check the modifiers should be x1.5 or x2 at best. As someone pointed out, might as well get Quicken to entirely bypass this mechanic.

[dragnmoon]

This is not entirely accurate.

With Quicken on, you don't have to make any concentration checks. Your spells can still be disrupted by other means, such as being hit mid-cast with a beholder's Anti-magic cone, or being tripped while casting.

Or Being Killed... oh..Unless you are a Monster... if a monster gets killed it's spell still goes off... that still bugs me to no end.

[Heladron]

It's interesting that this topic came up since I've been planning a Cleric. I started thinking at what point should I consider further points in concentration a lost cause.

Since damage in DDO eventually goes above and beyond ones ability to make a concentration check it would seem that there should be a cutoff where you start to spend those skill points in something that will be beneficial. Has anyone found a level threshold where you no longer bother with putting points in concentration?

As for concentration being broken, I don't necessarily think it's broken. But unless a character has a concentration 13+ item, put every single skill point possible into concentration, had Greater Heroism, Good Luck item, you're probably going to have a tough time casting spells while getting hit.

The recent times that I've had trouble, in the Vale, was in the Shavarath area when devils seem to auto aggro clerics. They hit real hard and even with 20+ concentration it makes little difference since the damage is pretty high and you're being hit multiple times by multiple devils.

If the mobs are averaging 40 points of damage (hypothetical but possibly close) 10 + 40dmg + 5spell = 55 - 20 (concentrate) = no way in Shavarath you're getting any spells off with even a 20 on the die roll.

Basically I'm just curious to know when the best place to cutoff the dumping of skill points into a skill that seems to have very little benefit past 10 level and possible sooner.

Personally I've never said, "Good thing my concentration is so high or we might have wiped." Typically it's something along the lines of, "Bleep, bleep +20 bleep concentration. Son of a bleep. Bleep concentration. Bleep waste of skill points."

[Shade]

Concentraiton skill works fine and its is fairly balanced, you just need to reduce the damage you take in the first place.

For example if you put on a greater lightning resist item, such as the blue robe - a good caster item.. You would have suffered only 7 dmg, thus your concentration DC would be 7 + 5 = 12, very easy to make.

[Heladron]

Concentraiton skill works fine and its is fairly balanced, you just need to reduce the damage you take in the first place.

For example if you put on a greater lightning resist item, such as the blue robe - a good caster item.. You would have suffered only 7 dmg, thus your concentration DC would be 7 + 5 = 12, very easy to make.

If it is balanced, then I'm the president of the Galaxy. I can deal out 70+ damage on a crit to an enemy caster and I still get my guts fried crispy. If it was so balanced then why can't we interrupt the enemies equally well?

The concentration check is stupid because it only applies to players and not monsters. Second, it only works to a certain point and then in the high level content you get the option to either not get hit or get hit and not cast spells.

Here's a sample scenario that will show how it's not balanced.

Fighter A is currently hitting the elven sorcerer with a great elf bane greatsword. The elven sorcerer is casting a scorching ray at me, the cleric, while I'm trying to cast a Heal spell on another player who is fighting something far worse. The fighter deals 70 points of damage in a single hit. The elven sorcerer still gets his spell off by what I like to call "divine game intervention". The 3 scorching rays hit me for 72 damage. Thanks goodness 30 was eaten by my fire resistance. Now I only have to make the following roll: 10 + 42 + 6 = 60. Tell me how I'm going to do that with a roll of 20 + 23 (concentration) = 43. I'm still 17 off the mark. How is that remotely balanced? Even with a +13 concentration item I'm still going to miss the mark.

That means concentration is not only unbalanced, but completely freaking worthless too.

[rimble]

As for concentration being broken, I don't necessarily think it's broken. But unless a character has a concentration 13+ item, put every single skill point possible into concentration, had Greater Heroism, Good Luck item, you're probably going to have a tough time casting spells while getting hit.

Why would you expect a Skill to work really well with only minimal effort put into raising it? 19 Ranks + 5 Constitution + 11 Item = 35 pretty easily...and it can go alot higher...but your posts mention only a +20 or a +23...that's really low...

I just...I don't know...you sound like "I only have this skill at half (maybe less even) of it's full potential and it doesn't work, it's useless"...it sounds weird...

[MysticTheurge]

If it is balanced, then I'm the president of the Galaxy. I can deal out 70+ damage on a crit to an enemy caster and I still get my guts fried crispy. If it was so balanced then why can't we interrupt the enemies equally well?

Enemy casters not having to make concentration checks is an entirely different debate from whether concentration, for PCs, is balanced appropriately.