Lone Wolves Losing Interest

[Karavek]

Ive come and gone from this game several times since it began 2 years ago. Everytime I came I came hoping to spend countless hours wandering mystical woods and dank dungeons, and every time I found myself spending most of my time grinding out tiny bits of XP and loot from a few select areas while waiting for a team to do something Id not already done to death. Even as the game took on a higher lvl cap and added some new content my problem remained, no team meant nothing to do even the "SOLO" content they provided was a joke still far to much risk and so little xp and loot gained as to make the setting laughingly pointless. A few quest could be done on normal with a lvl or 2 higher then they where meant for but always with great risk and still little reward beyond personal satisfaction at surviving that which was meant for a party. My table top groups where often small and our DMs often with a equally small amounts of time we became big users of premade modules. Admittedly many where far from the best story but they served us well for years. So with a small group and short on time we became masters of survival for often the modules had been meant for bigger groups with a range of powers. Eventually clerics became a sin to us for we found even roleplaying them to seem out of place with teams who devoted themselves to stealth to always remain heavily unseen, and where prepared to cut any throat if it was not innocent. Paladins to soon fell out of use in our groups being to morally restrained for what it took to survive. One final time I am going to ask the folks at Turbine to give this game a real solo aspect, if I could find teams doing things I wanted to do I would but I cant, and I am dreadfully tired of spending most of my time in game doing nothing but looking at my inventory of neat gear I cant ever bring to use. My characters often are not FTW builds as some call it, my warriors are lightly armored and favor finnesse over might, my rogues rarely can keep up with the High skill DCs and so just tumble past traps trusting in evasion, and therby save skill points for lock picking and other skills, yet ofcourse no team wants a rogue who leaves traps behind. My clerics focus on destroying undead and rarely heal an ally because Id sooner spend my last cure spell blasting a wraith, so focurse my clerics to remain unpopular, my bards battle on the frontline my barbarian rangers use a bow while raging and running along the back edge. Yes I know its my own fault teams dont like me but D&D is not about blasters, aggro tanks, and healers its about FUN. I beg you give us Lone Wolves a wood to run in where we can seek out fun,worthwhile loot and xp, and above all a challenge both equal to our skills and imagination.

[captain1z]

I too solo a lot and sometimes I complete certain quests more easily alone than with a group but when you are really trying to level there is not much of a way around grouping.

Some of the landscape areas are very solo freindly and you can get a lot of XP out of them....... I have tons of fun in tangleroot, sorrowdusk isle and believe it or not Atraxia's Haven.

I only have 2 suggestions:


- find a group of like-minded indivuals (light role players may be best) take your time and role play thru a dungeon.

- For all your solo needs play Elder Scrolls: Oblivion or even Morrowind

Soloing is on the radar for DDO but its just a small blip about the size or smaller than PVP. Thats the way it goes for this and other areas of gameplay that were not a focus at launch/ not part of concept. These things may be added later but will never likely be 100% effective.


D&D both PNP & DDO have never truely been pushed as a solo experience. When my PNP group consisted of just me and my friend we would sometimes run the little adventure in the back of the basic set to level a new character alone and just be honest about your die rolls (at least I was anyway) It had a choose your own adventure set-up, but other than that and a few home console games D&D has always been about the group, even if its just someone to hold a torch or pull a lever.

[Pellegro]

As noted, adventure areas are a great place to solo. They cover a wide swath of levels now, too.

But I agree with the OP that DDO is not a great game if you're 100% solo. I think that was originally by design - indeed, it was an original selling point. And I think the design and imlementation now make it nearly impossible to go back and make this game totally equal for single player OR grouping.

So I think basically you have to accept that there are some solo opportuntiies but most of the content is designed for groups. Thats just hte nature of hte beast.

If you really just like solo'ing, check out NWN2. Its alot of fun on the solo campaign.

But I'd also suggest you try grouping more, with like minded players. There is no substitute for playing with people ....

[tihocan]

Why are you waiting for someone else to start a group for what YOU want to do?

[VonBek]

It won't lead me to quit if I cannot play "party of one". Yet, if soloing hits a wall, I see my self playing less. Soling lets me play when RL commitments (family, work, & school have to come first). Soloing lets me pace an adventure when I'm on a support call, messing around the house, or in between other RL hurdles. Imagine asking a PUG to wait 15 min so you can take care of dinner - heh

I've adapted to changes in AI. I'm adapting to changes in trap damage (OUCH!!!!). But I'd really like to see a bit more encouragement for soloing, or at least get the sense that soloing would not be further discouraged (forcing party splits, requiring a Rogue to get through a trap). I figure I'll find a way to get my character from point A to point B, but it's not quite as much fun, as it used to be.

I've heard we might see the adventure areas link together, better (yay). I've heard we could see new low level content as monks debut (yay). This helps. If I wish hard enough, I could ask for class specific solo content, perhaps to get to the level trainers.

This is a group game at heart, I accept that. I like the journey (playing through the lower levels) more than the destination (end game capped character limits). More content isn't the only answer. Turbine brings the game. But only the player brings the fun.

[swooshrp]

From a soloing point of view, I can see where many quests would be problematic especially at the higher levels. The outdoor exlporing areas were created to help with that but still give problems to solo players.

One suggestion I had for soloing (maybe easier to code) an explorer/wilderness area only is that spell points and hit points both regen over time at a small tick. This would help the player continue through without dying as much because they could rest as needed. Also for exploring xp, maybe increase xp by 25% or something. Also, maybe allow outdoor areas an option to allow all monsters respawn after X minutes?

I understand that shrines reset now, but there is still problems to having to make your way to it. This would be a compromise between the two. Of course, you would have to find a balance between healing/regening over time.

Thoughts?

[Kerr]

But I'd really like to see a bit more encouragement for soloing, or at least get the sense that soloing would not be further discouraged (forcing party splits, requiring a Rogue to get through a trap).

Why would they encourage a solitary activity on something that by design is a group activity?

[VonBek]

Why would they encourage a solitary activity on something that by design is a group activity?

I hear ya. I get to enjoy the time I get to play, BECAUSE I solo. If soloing gets no encouragement, I can live with that.

What concerns me is the probability that soloing might be further discouraged in the interest of the majority's playstyle. So while I might wish (with little hope) for solo-friendly challenges, I still hang onto some hope that as the game changes someone at the design level will remember that solo play really works for some of us, and not inadvertently block the option, further..

I get very few hours a week to group. Most folks I group with level so quickly, I do not get to enjoy lasting social connections. Soloing lats me fall behind, slower.

It works for me. I'd rather not see it squashed.

[Aspenor]

Guys, I hate to say it like this, but I will....

If you want to play SOLO, don't play an online game meant to be played with other people. If you want to play a game alone, play it alone. Play NWN2, Dungeon Siege, or Dragonshard.

Dungeons and Dragons, is in general, a group-based game. You don't play pen and paper by yourself. DDO is no different. I do not feel that Turbine should encourage anti-social activity. They give us plenty of solo things to do to fill time when there are no groups (explorer zones, etc.).

So, basically, don't expect Turbine to encourage solo play when the explicit purpose of the game's design is to encourage grouping and social play.

[Karavek]

Although I do want more content that allows for solo play, my point largely is often the only teams available are doing the same quest over and over for Loot Runs or super xp runs. I myself am guilty of this in some cases of extremely fast and easy xp at lower lvls. I even was thankful for the enhancment lien taht lets anyone have a iron defender who can be invaluable in the early stages. I kind of wish real animal companions would come into play for my rangers as well. The fact is this game population hasnt really increased but decreased almost every weak I read a new post of another veteren leaving for a game with deep character development and more content. Even WOW offers enough that a person can play from 1-60 all alone if that is waht you may ahve to do from lack of fellow players interested in doing what you feel up for. I recently began a new character and have had some fun pugs and hope the trend continues, but I can already see as my lvl ticks up that less players are out for the same goals and a man can only "Help Others" before wanting to do something different only to hear the whoel party say eww that is low xp or **** loot why bother unless you can do it on elite for favor. Its not in the name of wanting to play alone I call for Solo content its in the name of having fun things to do when you cant find a team( at any level) not just having to go stand around or play an alt who I am bored with or Help some others do waht they want again. So hear me I am not saying I want the game to cater to all out solo play just give us some for every level range to keep us playing when we cant find teams

[VonBek]

I'm no Kreskin, but I suspect the game is about as soloable as it will get. Group behaviors form a significant part of the "social compact" once you're in game. Add to this that past development likely predicts future development. Adventure areas, while welcome, will remain a way to pass time. I expect you'll find that solo considerations only allow players to introduce themselves to a sample of quests, mobs, scenarios for learning purposes. The core spirit of DDO will likely center on the six character party, in a hand crafted quest.

Although I do want more content that allows for solo play, my point largely is often the only teams available are doing the same quest over and over for Loot Runs or super xp runs. I myself am guilty of this in some cases of extremely fast and easy xp at lower lvls. I even was thankful for the enhancment lien taht lets anyone have a iron defender who can be invaluable in the early stages. I kind of wish real animal companions would come into play for my rangers as well. The fact is this game population hasnt really increased but decreased almost every weak I read a new post of another veteren leaving for a game with deep character development and more content. Even WOW offers enough that a person can play from 1-60 all alone if that is waht you may ahve to do from lack of fellow players interested in doing what you feel up for. I recently began a new character and have had some fun pugs and hope the trend continues, but I can already see as my lvl ticks up that less players are out for the same goals and a man can only "Help Others" before wanting to do something different only to hear the whoel party say eww that is low xp or **** loot why bother unless you can do it on elite for favor. Its not in the name of wanting to play alone I call for Solo content its in the name of having fun things to do when you cant find a team( at any level) not just having to go stand around or play an alt who I am bored with or Help some others do waht they want again. So hear me I am not saying I want the game to cater to all out solo play just give us some for every level range to keep us playing when we cant find teams

[villainsimple]

Guys, I hate to say it like this, but I will....

If you want to play SOLO, don't play an online game meant to be played with other people. If you want to play a game alone, play it alone. Play NWN2, Dungeon Siege, or Dragonshard.

Dungeons and Dragons, is in general, a group-based game. You don't play pen and paper by yourself. DDO is no different. I do not feel that Turbine should encourage anti-social activity. They give us plenty of solo things to do to fill time when there are no groups (explorer zones, etc.).

So, basically, don't expect Turbine to encourage solo play when the explicit purpose of the game's design is to encourage grouping and social play.

There are far more ways to engage in social play than simply being in the same group. The auction house is a fine example of this.

Solo play should always be encouraged because sometimes we may wish to advance our characters, talk to our DDO friends, or do... whatever... while not wishing, or not being able to find a suitable group.

Simply telling people to "go find another game" is detrimental to DDO, you never want to encourage people to go somewhere else.

Expanding the playability of the game is a GOOD thing.

[Vormaerin]

Well, yes and no... In theory expanding solo play would appeal to a broader audience. But you have to consider what effect it would have on game play in general. In most games with substantial solo content, many of the players spend most of their time soloing. That's hardly useful to the community, though it still benefits Turbine's pocket.

More importantly, what changes have to be made to the quests to make them soloable? And by whom? Designing a quest that can be completed alone by a fighter or a rogue or a mage or a cleric is very tricky, especially for the first two classes. What you would probably end up with is fighters soloing certain quests, rogues others, and spellcasters yet others. That really kind of messes up the D&D feel of the game in favor of a generic MMO feel.

The whole idea of D&D's combat system is glorified rock/paper/scissors. Making it so you can complete quests with a rock or paper or scissors severely limits what the devs can do in any given dungeon. It also rules out things like Xorian Cipher or Rest for the Restless, where you need a party to complete the quest (You can do Rest for the Restless with DDoor, I think).

[HFGfeather]

Why must we always have a full party to make it through these adventures. Why not let them be done with 2 or 3 friends and solo.

I am a solo player a lot of the time due to RL household interuptions. My problem with the open areas is that once you have found all the places and capped off by killing all the mobs a bunch of times, you are done no more XP and and very little loot to pay for your broken armor and equipment. Deaths bring even more damage to your equipment. It is then pointless to ever go back through the area unless it gets you to a quest you need to do.

I feel much the same as Karavek there is no love for the soloist. I know this game is not ment to be a solo game, but there are times when you just need to solo. Times when my connection is poor at best and it would be unfair to hold up a group that would need me to be there for them when I am stuck in a mid air jump for 5 min. Or when I just can't devote a lot of time to the game and might have to bail in the middle of a mission. I still want to do something, if I can't finish it that is ok. I sure don't need a huge repair bill because I was soloing and died 10 times just to get through the thing with no XP.

Now that my Wizard is level 15 I get no XP for a lot of quests that I have never even done yet. What is up with that?

Now I get equipment damage at level 15 for even the lowest level quests. I also get deaths on low level quests when I solo which means I get squat for loot and pay big time for repairs. I would guess my soloing days are over unless I do it naked.
Azari

[Vormaerin]

You can do all but the raids with 2-4 players, at least on normal and hard. Some of them you can solo. On my current character (bard 10), I've only done 1 quest with a so called "full party". And she's not even heavily twinked or anything. A lot of quests were done with 3, the rest with 4.

edit: your wizard not getting xp means he probably leveled by repeating certain high value quests or seriously farming the outdoor zones. Otherwise, its not that hard to do all the quests at an appropriate level. Some you'll do with a slight xp penalty, but not "nothing at all".

[Aspenor]

There are far more ways to engage in social play than simply being in the same group. The auction house is a fine example of this.

Solo play should always be encouraged because sometimes we may wish to advance our characters, talk to our DDO friends, or do... whatever... while not wishing, or not being able to find a suitable group.

Simply telling people to "go find another game" is detrimental to DDO, you never want to encourage people to go somewhere else.

Expanding the playability of the game is a GOOD thing.

I disagree. Solo play should not be encouraged in DDO. DDO is designed around questing. The entire point of the game is to complete quests with a group. I do not think people should be encouraged to play solo.

Basically, I don't want all the whiners turning DDO into another WoW or LOTRO. Go kill 5 rats, go find 10 sticks.....gag me. Games that encourage solo play usually have that element, and DDO is not intended for that target audience.

[Memnir]

From the get-go DDO was not intended to be soloed... hence the ad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9dDBrxAySA

Also, not every quest has to be compleated with a full six-person group. I've done a great deal of the content that did not require X number of people to get past an obstacle (ie, 4 people needed to get past the blue doors in Xorian Cipher) with less than a full group. It can be done, and quite easily. Sometimes a three or four person group is more effective and a lot more fun than either going solo or with a full group.

I think this design choice is far more in keeping with the spirit of tabletop D&D than allowing for rampant soloing - and I applaud it. While I think that a few Solo only quests would be nice besides those found right outside the Wavecrest's doors, I would plead that they be kept to a minimum.

[BlueLightBandit]

You know... I shudder at the concept... but I've never once broken out my dice bag and a few books to SOLO anything in the pen and paper version. Why would I do it in the online version?

If you have less than 30 minutes, then you don't have enough time for a pen and paper group either.

[Aspenor]

(ie, 4 people needed to get past the blue doors in Xorian Cipher)

Not to be picky, but with the proper pair of members, you can duo almost any quest in DDO.

Xorian Cypher, for example, can be duod. The doors with the pressure triggers can be opened with 1 character on each side, as long as they can summon a monster. With exact timing of the summons placed on top of the empty triggers, the doors will be opened by the 2 characters and the 2 summons.

[Ringos]

I must be missing something, but if I was just playing solo, I'd play a console or stand-alone PC game instead. Why pay $15 a month?

As far as the OP goes, I understand why people wouldn't group with a cleric that didn't heal...do you blame them?