Ranger Build (feats only)

[Sheezgame]

Okay... I thought it was better to start an on topic thread for this.

What I have figured out so far is
. I often need to main tank with the group I play with, I use 1H + shield for this, i am primarily dex based.
. Since we play a bit more tactically and take it slow I often use ranged combat as well

. Displacement is awesome, and to get the most out of it, extended displacement is even better (plus I can extend barkskin).
. Sniper shot sounds like it would be great with multishot and while multishot is cooling down.
. Since I am tanking/meleeing a bit and I am dex based, I must have Weapon Finesse so I can hit things on elite.

So.. to get all that I have to do this with my feats:
1. Least dragonmark
3. Lesser dragonmark
6. Extend Spell
9. Point Blank Shot
12. WF: Ranged
15. IC: Ranged
18. Weapon Finesse

Disadvantages:
1. The main feats I am missing that I was previously going to get are Dodge and IC: Pierce. As much as I will miss the +1 AC, extended displacement seems much better.
2. Extra dragonmark enhancements and sniper will use an extra 14 action points. Plus another 9 Action points in enhancements I dont even want just to get deepwood sniper. 23 Action points in total!

So.

Any Thoughts?

Also, what happens if you don't have a feat that is a prerequisite of a free class feat (e.g if you don't have Point Blank Shot, can you still use Manyshot?)

Thanks

[Yaga_Nub]

Okay... I thought it was better to start an on topic thread for this.

What I have figured out so far is
. I often need to main tank with the group I play with, I use 1H + shield for this, i am primarily dex based.
. Since we play a bit more tactically and take it slow I often use ranged combat as well

. Displacement is awesome, and to get the most out of it, extended displacement is even better (plus I can extend barkskin).
. Sniper shot sounds like it would be great with multishot and while multishot is cooling down.
. Since I am tanking/meleeing a bit and I am dex based, I must have Weapon Finesse so I can hit things on elite.

So.. to get all that I have to do this with my feats:
1. Least dragonmark
3. Lesser dragonmark
6. Extend Spell
9. Point Blank Shot
12. WF: Ranged
15. IC: Ranged
18. Weapon Finesse

Disadvantages:
1. The main feats I am missing that I was previously going to get are Dodge and IC: Pierce. As much as I will miss the +1 AC, extended displacement seems much better.
2. Extra dragonmark enhancements and sniper will use an extra 14 action points. Plus another 9 Action points in enhancements I dont even want just to get deepwood sniper. 23 Action points in total!

So.

Any Thoughts?

Also, what happens if you don't have a feat that is a prerequisite of a free class feat (e.g if you don't have Point Blank Shot, can you still use Manyshot?)

Thanks

Yes you can still use Manyshot w/o PBS but if you are going to try for the Deepwood Sniper enhancement then you will need PBS any way if I remember correctly. Don't worry about Dodge. You won't miss the +1 AC. Extended Displacement will make up for it. To make things a bit easier on yourself you might splash 1 level of Wiz for the free meta-magic feat or 1/2 levels of fighter to get 1/2 free feats.

[Sheezgame]

Yeah I think I want to stick with pure ranger for the 5th favored enemy at level 20.

One of the biggest problems I am having is not enough action points.

At Lvl16 I can get from enhancements:
+2 Elven Dex
+3 Ranger Dex
+2 Melee attack
+2 Melee damage
+2 Ranged damage
3 of the 4 extra dragonmarks
+2 Favored attack
+4 Favored damage
+2 of 3 favored AC

At this point I have used up all of my action points, and haven't even started on the 13 points required for deepwood sniper.

I was wondering though, are the +1/2 damage enhancements worth it, I mean it's only 1 point of damage isn't it? I guess it all adds up.

Maybe I am better not bothering with deepwood sniper, and scrapping WF:Ranged for IC:Rapier. This would allow me to get more constant damage via enhancements with both melee and ranged instead of the small bursts of damage with Deepwood sniper.


p.s I know you get extra Action points when the cap is raised to 18, 20 etc. But I am assuming some of those lines will be extended or there will be something good and new to get as well!

[Cinwulf]

if this list of feats and level you plan to get them:

So.. to get all that I have to do this with my feats:
1. Least dragonmark
3. Lesser dragonmark
6. Extend Spell
9. Point Blank Shot
12. WF: Ranged
15. IC: Ranged
18. Weapon Finesse

I think you should get weapon finese alot sooner than lvl 18

[Westerner]

Interesting build... I can attest to the awesomeness of self-cast Displacement on a tank!! You'll want to spend AP's to get more uses per rest, it's just that good. Are you sure the Dragonmark version can be Extended?

Feat order needs work... fyi, Lesser Dragonmark requires Elf 6. I'd suggest:
1-Finesse
3-Least Dragonmark
6-Lesser Dragonmark (going hard for Displacement fighter concept)
9-Extend
12-IC:Pierce (for DPS, leverages Displacement nicely)
15/18-Point Blank / IC:Ranged

postponing the Deepwood sniper project til later in the build. I don't see how you can fit it in earlier without diluting your focus.

I don't think you need WF: Ranged.
EDIT: it's a Deepwood prereq. Thanks to Yaga for correction.

Class feats are given to you regardless of prereqs.

You could splash fighter for 1-2 additional feats.

[Yaga_Nub]

Interesting build... I can attest to the awesomeness of self-cast Displacement on a tank!! You'll want to spend AP's to get more uses per rest, it's just that good. Are you sure the Dragonmark version can be Extended?

Feat order needs work... fyi, Lesser Dragonmark requires Elf 6. I'd suggest:
1-Finesse
3-Least Dragonmark
6-Lesser Dragonmark (going hard for Displacement fighter concept)
9-Extend
12-IC:Pierce (for DPS, leverages Displacement nicely)
15/18-Point Blank / IC:Ranged

postponing the Deepwood sniper project til later in the build. I don't see how you can fit it in earlier without diluting your focus.

I don't think you need WF: Ranged.

Class feats are given to you regardless of prereqs.

You could splash fighter for 1-2 additional feats.

For Deepwood Sniper you do need WF: Ranged

[Westerner]

For Deepwood Sniper you do need WF: Ranged

Thanks. In that case, I would choose a focus: Displaced melee, or Ranged. Too hard to fit both in. Or splash fighter for more feats.

[Sheezgame]

Thanks guys.. yeah the order is a bit skewed because of current feats I need to respec and I haven't sorted that out yet.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the usefulness of +attack and +damage enhancements, compared to getting deepwood sniper?


The only way I can make this build work is by not putting as many action points into favored enemy enhancements or the elf +attack/damage enhancements.

Which is something I didn't particularly want to do, deepwood sniper probably isn't good enough to justify that? The funny thing is I can make it there with the feats easy enough its the action points that are holding me back!

[Osharan_Tregarth]

Thanks guys.. yeah the order is a bit skewed because of current feats I need to respec and I haven't sorted that out yet.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the usefulness of +attack and +damage enhancements, compared to getting deepwood sniper?


The only way I can make this build work is by not putting as many action points into favored enemy enhancements or the elf +attack/damage enhancements.

Which is something I didn't particularly want to do, deepwood sniper probably isn't good enough to justify that? The funny thing is I can make it there with the feats easy enough its the action points that are holding me back!

I generally go full out with the weapon enhancements, and then if I have any left over, or need some filler to unlock higher level enhancements, I'll put some into the favored enemy line. I'd rather have extra attack/damage bonuses towards everything, rather than towards some things. And I'll pick favored enemy "to hit" enhancements over favored enemy damage enhancements.

[Sheezgame]

Yeah I was thinking along the same lines, +1 damage is only 1 does it even go into crit damage or does it get put on top?

The deepwood sniper increasing the crit multipler would probably end up giving more damage

[Osharan_Tregarth]

Yeah I was thinking along the same lines, +1 damage is only 1 does it even go into crit damage or does it get put on top?

The deepwood sniper increasing the crit multipler would probably end up giving more damage

The +1 to damage gets added in before the crit multiplier takes effect.

[QuantumFX]

Yeah I was thinking along the same lines, +1 damage is only 1 does it even go into crit damage or does it get put on top?

The deepwood sniper increasing the crit multipler would probably end up giving more damage

The +1 is added before the multiplier. However, adding 1 to your threat range and making that bow a x4 crit multiplier is way better. BTW: Silver Longbow FTW

[Sheezgame]

Yeah I did some math and worked it out. At the end of the day I am either going for an average +10 constant damage, or getting a substantial ranged boost burst damage.

I am one that likes utility and being able to drop a mob with sniper/multishot that might be on a caster for example, could make all of the difference.

So a final look at the feats:
Point Blank Shot, Dragonmark Least, WF:Ranged, Dragonmark Lesser, IC Ranged, Weapon Finesse, Extend Spell

I know the order is a bit screwed up, its mostly because I only have a couple of respec tokens, and I Would like to get sniper and displacement as early as possible. Will leave extend till last incase they add these rods people keep talking about.

For enhancements I won't be getting Elf Melee Damage, but will get +2 Favored Damage.

I generally go full out with the weapon enhancements, and then if I have any left over, or need some filler to unlock higher level enhancements, I'll put some into the favored enemy line. I'd rather have extra attack/damage bonuses towards everything, rather than towards some things. And I'll pick favored enemy "to hit" enhancements over favored enemy damage enhancements.

I kinda agree with this but on the other hand I kinda don't. The elf damage enhancements work on any enemy which is good however they cost alot more (2,4) than the favored damage (1,2,3,4), AND the favored damage works on both Ranged and Melee.

So you could spend 12 points on the Elf Damage to get +2 Damage for Both ranged and Melee on all monsters OR you could spend about the same to get +4 damage for both ranged and melee on your favored monsters.

Like everything else there is just a bit of give and take!

I will however get the +attack bonuses first, as damage is useless if you can't hit anything

[Osharan_Tregarth]

I kinda agree with this but on the other hand I kinda don't. The elf damage enhancements work on any enemy which is good however they cost alot more (2,4) than the favored damage (1,2,3,4), AND the favored damage works on both Ranged and Melee.

So you could spend 12 points on the Elf Damage to get +2 Damage for Both ranged and Melee on all monsters OR you could spend about the same to get +4 damage for both ranged and melee on your favored monsters.

Like everything else there is just a bit of give and take!

I will however get the +attack bonuses first, as damage is useless if you can't hit anything

I've done it different ways on different rangers, at various points in their development.

Up until mod five my drow ranger(which would be the closest to yours) had all of the weapon enhancements, and all of the favored enemy enhancements. But now that I've re-tooled him to be a little more party-friendly, I didn't have enough room to keep the offensive favored enemy enhancements. He's got the skill boost maxed, extra skill boost, favored enemy defense, etc.

I've got a human ranger/rogue that doesn't have any racial weapons, but keeps ranger spot/search fully maxed, along with the skill boosts for rogue type stuff.

I've got a dwarf ranger that has all of the racial weapon enhancements, and most of the favored enemy enhancements as well.

And I'm not sure what my other rangers have selected right now.... These are just the ones that I'd played up to level 14 before mod 6 came out.

[Sheezgame]

Yeah thats a good point, I also ideally need the search/spot enhancements as well since I am the main spotter/searcher in my normal party with our rogue/bard multiclass who handles disable and lockpicking.

We originally did this and I didn't know that I wouldnt be able to detect some of the high level traps which is really annoying. Apparently DC20 traps only rogues and clerics can uncover or something?

Hopefully there aren't too many of those in the game

[Osharan_Tregarth]

Yeah thats a good point, I also ideally need the search/spot enhancements as well since I am the main spotter/searcher in my normal party with our rogue/bard multiclass who handles disable and lockpicking.

We originally did this and I didn't know that I wouldnt be able to detect some of the high level traps which is really annoying. Apparently DC20 traps only rogues and clerics can uncover or something?
Correct... I'm going to try and umd a find traps scroll tonight to see if it effects my trap spot warning on my pure ranger.

Hopefully there aren't too many of those in the game
Well.... Unfortunately, pretty much any quest level eight and up on anything other than normal.... I think your bard friend will have to start putting some points into spot if he has the points available.

....

[Sheezgame]

Ahh ****.. that is really annoying. Search should work the same no matter what the character class ..


Is it search or spot that only works for clerics/rogues?

Can cleric search with their spell?

[Westerner]

Rangers get a +10 spot buff with Wild Instincts, combined with a good spot item, you shouldn't need any Spot enhancements.

[Sheezgame]

Ahh good I forgot about that. Apparently from the thread going in Newbie Q&A, rangers can't spot traps of DC20+ OR search for traps of DC20+.


So what is the point of the wild instincts spell after lvl 8 anyway? This seems really stupid to me, aren't rangers supposed to make good 'scouts' and such.

[Osharan_Tregarth]

Ahh good I forgot about that. Apparently from the thread going in Newbie Q&A, rangers can't spot traps of DC20+ OR search for traps of DC20+.


So what is the point of the wild instincts spell after lvl 8 anyway? This seems really stupid to me, aren't rangers supposed to make good 'scouts' and such.

It's for seeing hidden/invisible mobs and such. (along with listen).