Trap DCs

[Lizardgrad89]

Oh, I don't know, my L16 sorc FoD's the heck out of mobs in Vale quests on normal, but can't land ANYTHING on elite. Have to go to damage spells, and with all the hit points the mobs have, that takes forever, and my spell points run like water.

I realize they've made life hard on rogues with this change, but I believe I have heard that Mod 7 is bringing some much needed rogue love, so hopefully there will be a rebalancing at that time.

Which, btw, will make me happy, because my L15 (12R/3P) battle rogue needs some love now, after these changes.

[Lizardgrad89]

If that's the metric they want to use, fine. No argument here. Then the XP and loot should be +5 levels also, not +2.

But don't tell everyone that elite is a +2 EL, but "secretly" make it +5. That's just stupid.

Agreed (except for the "stupid" part).

However, if they don't want to change the XP bonus for elite, I'd be ok with just having a +3 bonus to elite chests.

[Pellegro]

This discussion is kinda pointless now, as the release notes for Mod7 clearly state that they are reducing the trap save DCs on elite.

Now, anybody with a decent reflex save can ignore traps altogether. Even on elite!

Yay ... I guess ...

[DeadlyDaph]

I took a break from DDO and came back.. Looking forward to playing.. I have a 8 Ranger/ 7 Rogue.. I really wanted to do Tempest Spine.. Yes a level 15 doing TS.. Just wanted to run some old scool content to shake off the rust and I get to the first fire trap.. Made sure everything was in order. GHero check fire resistance check and take the trap as normal and bam dead in two shots.. I didn't pay too much to the rolls and thought it was strange and then I decided to run Von 5 on elite for fun and to kill the dragon on elite to finish out everything in house K on elite. Got almost every trap I came acrossed I died.. I have done Von 5 many times before with little trouble but not all out death after death.. Finally got the dragon dead and looked at my repair bill and was like ouch.. Then I realize something was amiss.. People in my party were talking about the DC for traps now.. I love my ranger/rogue toon and if they make it where you die everytime you got to disable a trap I'm not spending all my plat to repair my gear and having to recall out to fix my gear cause traps are impossible to get past one and if and when you do fail a save that you die cause it does 200 points of damage a shot.. It will make me retire my toon and if not retire my subscritpiton.. Turbines way of pigeonholing you into making a character they want you to play and not the character you wanna play.. Another concern is if they are going to ingnore our pleads to lower and balance out the DC on traps maybe they could actually add better armor to the game cause +5 has been out since the begining and now it is a dime a dozen and doesn't help as the mobs get harder and have way more hitpoints.. So either you agree or disagree this is where I stand that the DC have gotten crazy and to me even a twinked out full rogue can't make it through traps they will start to disappear like clerics have and then the game will might aswell let whatever took over the Marketplace tent totally take over and kill everyone in site. Shut down the servers and call it a day..

[honkuimushi]

I took a break from DDO and came back.. Looking forward to playing.. I have a 8 Ranger/ 7 Rogue.. I really wanted to do Tempest Spine.. Yes a level 15 doing TS.. Just wanted to run some old scool content to shake off the rust and I get to the first fire trap.. Made sure everything was in order. GHero check fire resistance check and take the trap as normal and bam dead in two shots.. I didn't pay too much to the rolls and thought it was strange and then I decided to run Von 5 on elite for fun and to kill the dragon on elite to finish out everything in house K on elite. Got almost every trap I came acrossed I died.. I have done Von 5 many times before with little trouble but not all out death after death.. Finally got the dragon dead and looked at my repair bill and was like ouch.. Then I realize something was amiss.. People in my party were talking about the DC for traps now.. I love my ranger/rogue toon and if they make it where you die everytime you got to disable a trap I'm not spending all my plat to repair my gear and having to recall out to fix my gear cause traps are impossible to get past one and if and when you do fail a save that you die cause it does 200 points of damage a shot.. It will make me retire my toon and if not retire my subscritpiton.. Turbines way of pigeonholing you into making a character they want you to play and not the character you wanna play.. Another concern is if they are going to ingnore our pleads to lower and balance out the DC on traps maybe they could actually add better armor to the game cause +5 has been out since the begining and now it is a dime a dozen and doesn't help as the mobs get harder and have way more hitpoints.. So either you agree or disagree this is where I stand that the DC have gotten crazy and to me even a twinked out full rogue can't make it through traps they will start to disappear like clerics have and then the game will might aswell let whatever took over the Marketplace tent totally take over and kill everyone in site. Shut down the servers and call it a day..

If you check the Weekly Dev activities, it mentions that the save DCs will be lowered in Mod 7. It doesn't say how much. When it goes live, we're going to have to try things again and se how they go. Then we can give our feedback on the new DCs. Hopefully things will be good in Mod 7, but it could take a few tries to fix things. That is one of the things I dislike about the new, longer release schedules. If tthings need to be tweaked a bit, it takes forever to fix things if you don't get it right the first time.

[Wu_Jen]

It's not necessary to min/max as much as you say. Drop dex to 16 and you get 6 build points to shuffle around however you like. Just playing around on the character planner i made a generic 28pt human 12 rog. Max ranks in every important rogue skill with plenty of extra skill points to allocate. AP can be shuffled for a more focused build. Way of the mechanic is not necessary. Combat is not sacrificed, not the greatest, but not incapable of fighting. Even without a major trapsmithing focus with enhancements and feats, he is still plenty capable of getting thru elite content at level 12. Hardly gimped, and minimally twinked. Halfling, elf or drow gets even better.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.80
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 12 Lawful Good Human Male
(12 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 116
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 9\9\14
Fortitude: 6
Reflex: 16
Will: 4

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Stats          Modified Stats
Abilities        (Level 1)             (Level 12) (with +4/5item)
Strength             12                    12   (16)
Dexterity            16                    23   (28)
Constitution         14                    14   (18)
Intelligence         12                    12   (16)
Wisdom               10                    10   (14)
Charisma             10                    10   (14)

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 12)
Balance               7                    17
Bluff                 0                     0
Concentration         2                     2
Diplomacy             0                     2
Disable Device        5                    18
Haggle                4                     7
Heal                  0                     0
Hide                  7                    21
Intimidate            0                     0
Jump                  5                    10
Listen                0                     2
Move Silently         7                    21
Open Lock             7                    22
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     1
Search                5                    18
Spot                  4                    17
Swim                  1                     1
Tumble                n/a                   7
Use Magic Device      4                    18

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
Feat: (Automatic) Trip

Level 2 (Rogue)
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion (Rogue)

Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense

Level 4 (Rogue)
Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge

Level 5 (Rogue)

Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Lightning Reflexes

Level 7 (Rogue)

Level 8 (Rogue)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Uncanny Dodge

Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting

Level 10 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Dexterity I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II
Enhancement: Rogue Search I
Enhancement: Rogue Search II
Enhancement: Rogue Spot I
Enhancement: Rogue Spot II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense II

Level 11 (Rogue)

Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense III

what can we expect?

+38 reflex save, unbuffed:
base +8
dex +9
trap sense (feat) +4
trap sense (enh) +3
imp uncanny dodge +4
HV save boost +4
lightning reflexes +2
resist item +4 (trapblast goggles)

trapsmithing w/+11 gear, unbuffed
spot 30
search 35
DD 42 with +5 lockpicks
OL 44 " "

Your taking feats to improve your reflex save, infact 2 of them out of your 7. Basically your shoehorning the rogue into a trapmonkey. Which I believe is what we don't want to do, right?

Steal the Healing Elixer has always been a fubared quest on Elite. It's a lvl 1 quest and on Elite that makes it a lvl 3 quest. The DC's to disable the traps are 30+

Lvl 3 rogue
20 INT (+5 DD)
6 ranks DD
+5 tools (+7DD)
+2 DD AP
+5 DD bound item
+4 Fox Cunning Buff from pot (+2 DD)
+2 INT Tome (+1 DD)
= +30 DD meaning you dont fail on a 1

Now granted that is the most buffed up lvl 3 rogue you can have for it, but still it shouldn't take that extreme a character to not fail.

[krud]

Your taking feats to improve your reflex save, infact 2 of them out of your 7. Basically your shoehorning the rogue into a trapmonkey. Which I believe is what we don't want to do, right?

Steal the Healing Elixer has always been a fubared quest on Elite. It's a lvl 1 quest and on Elite that makes it a lvl 3 quest. The DC's to disable the traps are 30+

Lvl 3 rogue
20 INT (+5 DD)
6 ranks DD
+5 tools (+7DD)
+2 DD AP
+5 DD bound item
+4 Fox Cunning Buff from pot (+2 DD)
+2 INT Tome (+1 DD)
= +30 DD meaning you dont fail on a 1

Now granted that is the most buffed up lvl 3 rogue you can have for it, but still it shouldn't take that extreme a character to not fail.

That's kind of an old post you're referencing, however, only 1 feat, lightning reflexes, is a selected feat (the trap sense feat is automatic for rogues). Also, i goofed, improved uncanny dodge gives a +6 bonus (not +4), so even without lightning reflexes you're still looking at a +38 for an average lvl12 human rogue (+35-38 for non-human rogues). Add a GH buff, parrying item, haste and you are already at +43-46. The first VoN5 DC is 48 on elite, so an average, non-trap specced build will fail on a 1(+46) to 4(+43). Not all that bad, especially if it's only a one shot deal. I think, however, that the electric trap is a little higher than that (maybe 50+). That may be a little much for an average rogue, or multiclass.

I think you're confusing the reflex DCs with the disable DC. I'm not sure about your disable numbers, but remember you only blow up a trap if you roll more than 5 below the disable DC, you can always try again until you get it. I just leveled a new MCrogue. I don't think the disable DCs were out of wack.

[samagee]

In your second example You conveniently left out any resistance item. Even a +4 would give You a 37 and cut Your failure rate in half...........I do agree, However, that the trap DC's are a bit high at the moment....................

If they are to high, then you are not a rogue or anywhere near being a trapsmith. You are using items to get you where a real rogue is, or would be at those lower levels. What did you expect?

[samagee]

I have no sympathy at all for those who are not true rogues. They don't allow us to steal from critters. They don't allow us to steal from the barrels and crates in adventures. We have to smash them instead of being stealthy. They don't allow us to use ropes and climbing tools to approach things in a different angle. So they give us good traps to ensure that rogues have something to do. And your not happy with it because you can't leave a real rogue out of your group. Sounds like someone needs to go back to the solo ego stroking games to me.