Melee's thoughts on so far discovered craftable equipment???

[Invalid_82]

I have played a melee since the game went live and have always enjoyed the role. I currently play 2 wf barbs on Khyber. My question is to you tanks that want to craft equipment rather then weapons, ie - bracers, goggles, helms, necklaces etc. What do you guys/gals think of the way the equipment crafting is looking for melee's??

So far I cannot justify making any known item except to maybe get the clicky for the affinities, and that is not at all epic imo. Making an epic level 1 equipment that gives a 50% to do 1d4 elemental dmg, and tier 2 being 1d4 elemental dmg is 1 of the only add-ons available for tanks. I dont think that amount of dmg would even be effective in WW on elite, I could imagine doing Devils elite with that proc from my epic item, what sort of a difference could that possibly make?? just doesnt make sense?

What about Regen: 1 hp per minute at lvl 1, 1 hp per 30 secs at lvl 2 (not stacking with level 1) and speculating 1 hp per 15 secs at maxed out for a total of 4 hps per minute. Again that wouldnt even make a difference in WW elite unless you wanted to wait 10-15 mins between every skirmish to recoup the hps from that lighting bolt you just ate. In high end content you could fight 1 devil and be down 100 hps+ so you would be sitting for 25+ mins. The only use I could have seen is if you went down to negatives in hps and stabilized, but now that has its' own regen, so the regen wouldnt be useful there either. Simply, I cannot see a use for regen at its current rate given melees hps are ranging at low end like 300 to high end 600+. With hps in mind, I'll add another possible add-on for melee's or any class.

The +to X skills and +10 hps add-on. This is in fact the add on I made with negative-negative as my affinity. In total this gave me +3 to my swim and jump and +25 hps at level 2. I am assuming that the final level will follow a similar path already seen being +6 swim and jump and +50 hps(10 at level 1, 15 stacking at level 2, and 25 stacking at level 3). I cannot say that +50 hps isn't a good thing, but really if +50 hps is a major increase in your hp pool, then I would wager your hps may be a little low for a melee. In fact you get more from taking a toughness and toughness line (+68 hps) then you do from this epic item. On the other side casters are getting 400, Sorcs 800 which isnt near the % of pre item to post item as +50 hps are for a tank. Assuming a sorc has 2200 spell points that 800 increase is 36% assuming a tank has 400 hps that is 12.5% not nearly the same. For me my barb has just a bit over 600 so for me that is an 8% increase. For a squishy with 200 hps that is a 25% increase. If the spell points dont override their magi, archmagi item then that spell point % increase goes up even further to 40%+ depending on what magi or wizardy they are using.

The +stat being on weapons is also strange, it would be great to craft a piece of equipment to give you that extra + to your +6 stat item you have now in that slot, but a weapon? Would a melee ever swap out his/her SoS or Greataxe, or a great dps 1 hander to grab an extra couple points into a stat? I really don't think so, but a caster may do just that to increase the dc on their spell's when they really needed them to land, or they used up the spell points from their magi item and now can swap to something different.

Unique abilities like Madstone Rage, Demonic Shield, Scourge Chocker (thought the slow down is deadly), Bloodstone these are much more exceptional then the above items, and in the realm of what i envisioned when customizing my own raid item. I did not invision any of the above for my customized raid item, but in terms of options it is pretty much the list I get to choose from. I realize that some affinity abilities may be superb, but any class can make the same affinity combo and enjoy the benefit. Again, I do not feel that taking near useless abilities on your epic item to get the affinity combo for some affinity ability is epic. Should the melee's be taking any of what looks to be coming close to a completed first raid altar upgrade list, to get to that affinity?

This is not meant at all to be that one class has it better then another, this is about having a chance to create the raid item we want, which is what this mod is all about. What if a melee is happy with their hard earned weapons and wants to make a great epic equipment piece, do any of the above sound like something you'd be geared up to spend hours and hours farming to create??? Not to me.

Post your thoughts, I'd love to hear them.

Prey
Extinction

Hand of the Black Tower

[Lithic]

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...4&postcount=53

A +5 weapon (with increased damge dice) that has Holy AND good burst? AND a true res clicky, AND can be upgraded once more for another effect?

Remember, your barbs could use the greatsword that is 3d6 damage per hit (thats like having an extra elemental effect on your normal greataxe/sword).

We also don't know what cool lvl 3 melee enhancements you can make. Another burst effect? Holy/good burst/acid burst would be fun.


PLEASE tell me your post was in jest.

[Angelus_dead]

Remember, your barbs could use the greatsword that is 3d6 damage per hit (thats like having an extra elemental effect on your normal greataxe/sword).

What kind of barb would nerf himself like that?

Someone who doesn't rage?

Someone who's simply bad at math?

[Vaarsuvius]

I believe the OP was referring to crafting Equipment as opposed to weapons and what benefit those upgrades have for melee's.

I also agree with the OP to an extent.

My intimitank is very dependant on his current equipment with goggles being his only available slot so i had hoped to craft something that would stack and increase my ac, unfortunately this only works on the weapons and the equivalent recipe only gives a +5 to will save

On the other hand there is a lot of possibilities and not everything has been discored yet so i will wait and see.

V

[Angelus_dead]

From what we've seen, there is a strong anti-melee bias in the new raid loot.

1. Types of weapons avail
The khopesh is the only good melee weapon that has been created. Everything else is secondary in its category.
Greatsword, Maul worse than Greataxe
Shortsword worse than Rapier, Pick
Longsword worse than Rapier, Scimitar, Battleaxe
No handaxe or kukri either.
Also, remember that monks are coming in module 7... there's no quarterstaff or kama for them either. They'd be stuck with daggers or scepters.

2. Stat boosts on weapons
In a way, I can understand why Turbine put the huge stat boosts on weapons and not clothing items: because its less useful on a weapon, therefore it is cheaper to provide it that way. Mega stat boosts on clothing they can save for the rewards of some higher-level quest. But what has happened is that spellcasters can hugely benefit from +7, +9, or +12 intelligence, wisdom, or charisma on a one-hand scepter, while fighters cannot really benefit from physical stats on a weapon.

A caster using a stat weapon to raise his spell DCs is probably only sacrificing a slot that would go for Potency or Arcane Lore (which can come on armor). If he's casting a spell that does 0 hp damage like Finger, Hold, Charm, or Dance, then neither of those sacrifices matters to him. Compare it against the Dreamspitter staff (from Reaver's Fate), or the Petitioner staff (from Accursed Ascension). Both of those add +1 to save DCs, for only one kind of magic, and only if you already have a +6 stat item elsewhere. And of course, they use up two weapon slots, blocking Potency. But a Green Steel Scepter of Charisma+9 would give you +2 or even +3 DCs, for all kinds of spells, and free up not just a hand slot, but also possibly a body-slot as well! (Note: evaluation assumes caster is wearing the Napkin, which she probably is)

Comparatively, a fighter who holds a sword of +9 strength is gaining either +2 or +3 attack and damage. Well, a simple weapon Of Righteousness would give you +2 already (and isn't hard to find). And, a Greater Bane weapon would give you much more than a +3 equivalent bonus. To use the +9 str sword would mean sacrificing some other powerful weapon enhancement to hold it. Maybe a TWF ranger could work it out to where a single weapon of strength is a benefit, but the majority of melee warriors won't have any way.

And lets not even get into the idea of a weapon of +9 constitution... it kills you when you switch weapons!

3. Sp boosts vs hp boosts
An hp boost is helpful to everyone. In fact, it may be more helpful to casters than melees: a caster wearing a +50 hp item might have gotten 25% more life, but a barb wearing it gets only 10% above his previous number.

And sp boosts are more flexible than hp boosts, because you can convert the sp into buffs, then swap the item off before going into battle. An hp boost item must be kept on for the entire fight to do any good. That flexibility

4. Sp/hp boost and skill alignment
The hp boosts come on physical skills, and the sp boosts are with mental skills. Mental skills include UMD, Haggle, Search, and Disable, which are more useful to boost than any of the physical skills. Thus someone who can use the sp boost item is more likely to get a helpful skill from it.

[Invalid_82]

Thanks to everyone that has responded so far. I agree that not all the affinity abilities have been discovered yet, but we are getting pretty close to understanding based on patterns, what the add on effects will be for the item we choose to upgrade.

My OP was keying in on equipment that has an epic add on for melee's, and not weapons. I saw a post mentioning the extra d6 from the green steel, and for anyone with a decent weapon and understanding of dps that is a brutal trade off, even if it has elemental dmg as well. For a melee that is looking at the effectivness of a said weapon its crit multiplier and crit range and if it banishes, smites, vorps, greater bane etc.

That being said, my intention is not to create an us vs. them sorta thing, casters have some awesome add on abilities to choose from on there way to creating their affinity effect, and that is a good thing, it should be epic. But what about melee's?? Can the same be said about our choice in equipment add on's?? Is there even anything that is exclusivly thought up for a melee or ranged dpser or intimitank?? Even the exceptional stat increases are much better for caster's, as a tank cannot have his/her con or str on a weapon, thats crazy. I could just see a tank swapping from his/her Epic Weapon to switch to a vorp to get an orthon in the shroud raid and dying and ending up in the penalty box because of con loss. For a barb its even more dangerous with Rage, Rage Pots, Madstone Rage and con being on our weapon, thats a formula for disaster hp wise and a massive loss in dps, so its a loss on both fronts.

As I brought up in my original post I envisioned cool add on's like seen on other items that are great for a tank, and exclusivly effective to our class. This post is looking at the add on's and not the affinities as the affinities are accessible to any class because of the crafting element, while much of what we have seen in the way of equipment add on's are only relatated to casters. All character types can, if desired, put the elemental guard, increase to stat and hps, regen etc on their equipment, though why would they when they have better things to choose from?

Prey
Extinction

Hand of the Black Tower

[Kamboe]

Nothing for my 16 Haflling Fighter....he doesnt have SoS bc hes so new....o well...Prey tops me anyways

[Shade]

Yea the weapons aren't that good.

Even if i did the maul holy + good burst.. Good burst is bugged so it doesn't give the "pure good" part and only the burst, so its +2d6 dmg.. and +4d6 on crits..

Worse dmg then all my greater bane greataxes...
and a clicky? meh i cant use clickys most of the time cuz im raged so there kinda annoying bonuses to me.

oh well depends on what kinda cool tier 3 effects we can add to see if any are useful.

[Slayer918]

My paladin intimitank will enjoy his goggles... 300 sp solves all my worries as well as +5 intimidate/UMD (bringing me to 51-54 intimi) and 2 charges of stoneskin... and possibly another effect... sure it may not be mind boggling but still going to be very nice... and on goggles which there are few useful items...

[juniorpfactors]

Yea the weapons aren't that good.

Even if i did the maul holy + good burst.. Good burst is bugged so it doesn't give the "pure good" part and only the burst, so its +2d6 dmg.. and +4d6 on crits..

Worse dmg then all my greater bane greataxes...
and a clicky? meh i cant use clickys most of the time cuz im raged so there kinda annoying bonuses to me.

oh well depends on what kinda cool tier 3 effects we can add to see if any are useful.

i think we can assume good splash...which will be very nice

[Benjai]

As a dex-based ranger I don't really see any combonation that can higher dps than a decent rapier. So I went ahead and made the HP gogs (more stoneskin clickies help a ton too).

That being said I think there are some niche weapons that might be useful. I don't think there will be a pure dps weapon that'll be good for me, but depending on what holes are filled I can see myself making a Elemental + Elemental Burst + 3 AC Shortsword. (elements depending on what aspect combonations make the coolest 3rd upgrade). Not the greatest mainhand dpser, but will be a sick offhand tank weapon that'll still contribute SOME moderate damage.

[Yaga_Nub]

As a dex-based ranger I don't really see any combonation that can higher dps than a decent rapier. So I went ahead and made the HP gogs (more stoneskin clickies help a ton too).

That being said I think there are some niche weapons that might be useful. I don't think there will be a pure dps weapon that'll be good for me, but depending on what holes are filled I can see myself making a Elemental + Elemental Burst + 3 AC Shortsword. (elements depending on what aspect combonations make the coolest 3rd upgrade). Not the greatest mainhand dpser, but will be a sick offhand tank weapon that'll still contribute SOME moderate damage.

The Green Steel Short Sword is 1d8 of damage.

Using JJ's Weapon Damage Comparison tool I get this:

Base assumptions: BAB 16, +7 STR bonus for damage, +10 DEX bonus to hit, IC:Piercing

Green Steel Short Sword, +5 hit/damae, pre-fix: alignment, suffix: true alignment, misc effect: alignment burst
(this assumes you take the holy and then good burst upgrades)

~30 hp of damage per swing against AC 41

Rapier, +4 hit/damage, pre-fix: alignment burst, suffix: True Alignment

~ 24 hp of damage per swing against AC 41

I only gave the rapier a +4 because I think a +4 holy burst rapier of pure good would be ML 16. If that's wrong let me know and I'll adjust that.

Anyway, a green steel short sword is a more than adequate substitute for a rapier (especially if your ranger is a drow).

[Whulffer]

Hmm perhaps we could craft weapons to use against specific mobs. otherwise in terms of the great sword.. The sword of shadows with a 50 str is still better then any craftable that I can understand... on average without exceptions. The higher the STR the more powerful the sos becomes... to bad my lil barb don't have one atm.

[CDG]

Someone made a Longsword with Holy, Good Burst, Good Blast and Greater Disruption with a True Res Clicky, was thinking of making one of those in a Maul as an Undead Wacker for my Barb - but it seems a lot of effort to be not that much better than a Maul of Greater Undead Bane.... still undecided

[sirgog]

Best I've heard of is to follow the immunity line (not sure on exact recipe, think it's -OM at all altars but this may be wrong) for:

Blindness Immunity
Poison Immunity
Fear Immunity
Disease Immunity
Deathblock
Slay Living Guard (random % chance to hit foes that make a successful melee attack on you with Slay Living).

[studentx]

A caster using a stat weapon to raise his spell DCs is probably only sacrificing a slot that would go for Potency or Arcane Lore (which can come on armor). If he's casting a spell that does 0 hp damage like Finger, Hold, Charm, or Dance, then neither of those sacrifices matters to him. Compare it against the Dreamspitter staff (from Reaver's Fate), or the Petitioner staff (from Accursed Ascension). Both of those add +1 to save DCs, for only one kind of magic, and only if you already have a +6 stat item elsewhere. And of course, they use up two weapon slots, blocking Potency. But a Green Steel Scepter of Charisma+9 would give you +2 or even +3 DCs, for all kinds of spells, and free up not just a hand slot, but also possibly a body-slot as well! (Note: evaluation assumes caster is wearing the Napkin, which she probably is)

yes yes I totally agree, no ....wait, I don't. A caster dropping sup or greater potency item and just using the **** potency off the dragon armor is like asking a pierce speced barb to switch to a dagger and just as dumb.

[Cold_Stele]

Yeh I'm pretty underwhelmed with the equipment for melees.

Almost every other slot seems to have a better named loot item than those available.

When I get the final piece of raid loot I need, the Titan Belt, I'll look at crafting bracers.

Maybe.