Question to the Devs, RE: Non-stacking upgrades

[Benjai]

So I built this..



And the AC bonuses do not stack. So does that mean my first upgrade was a complete waste or did I need that bonus to get the 2nd AC bonus? So far it seems like almost all phase 2 upgrades aren't dependant on their first upgrade (except for the aspect bonuses).

Now I know you guys have been quiet on the mechanics of crafting, but this is something that I think should get some clarification. Before I craft my 3rd upgrade, I should know if I need the previous 2 upgrades to get what I assume would be a total of 3 AC, or could I go back and craft a new weapon with Holy, Good burst, and 3 ac and have a much better weapon?

[Benjai]

You don't have to say what will happen but something along the lines of "You won't be disappointed by taking all 3 AC upgrades" would be a relief, ingredients are too expensive for me to experiment with.

[Mhykke]

Seems like a fair questions....

*intimitank ftr perks up and listens intently for responses

[Yaga_Nub]

I think that all bonuses should be stacking. Why would they allow the exceptional bonuses to stack but not the AC bonuses. I think that you should be carrying around a +3 insight bonus to AC item right now.

Look at this item!

That's an item with +6 to UMD which stacks with the +5 from the gloves in the Titan!

+11 UMD!

You're got to tell me that's not more game altering than an item with +3 to AC?

[Benjai]

I would really like to know whats going on with this, I can't afford to make a dummy sword to test (by putting holy on 1st upgrade and trying the ac 2nd upgrad).

[Khalai]

Both appear to be Insight Bonuses. As a general rule bonuses of the same name don't stack (Exception: dodge and untyped bonuses). This is the way it has always been.

The item Yaga has linked to has untyped bonuses, which specifically state that they stack with everything.

Working as intended it would appear, since if they wanted the the AC to stack they would be dodge bonuses.

[Benjai]

Both appear to be Insight Bonuses. As a general rule bonuses of the same name don't stack (Exception: dodge and untyped bonuses). This is the way it has always been.

The item Yaga has linked to has untyped bonuses, which specifically state that they stack with everything.

Working as intended it would appear, since if they wanted the the AC to stack they would be dodge bonuses.

Yes I understand that its not stacking b/c its insight, but what I'm asking is whether there is any benefit of getting the 1 AC upgrade if you get 2 AC upgrade 2nd.

[Khalai]

Ah I guess I misread the question. I blame my lack of sleep the past two days

[JFeenstra]

Yes I understand that its not stacking b/c its insight, but what I'm asking is whether there is any benefit of getting the 1 AC upgrade if you get 2 AC upgrade 2nd.

it becomes a true resurrection clicky, that's the only reason

[Benjai]

it becomes a true resurrection clicky, that's the only reason

So would you if you went holy then the ac upgrade.

[JFeenstra]

So would you if you went holy then the ac upgrade.

true enough...

there doesn't seem to be much a point of that then

[Vinos]

I think that all bonuses should be stacking. Why would they allow the exceptional bonuses to stack but not the AC bonuses. I think that you should be carrying around a +3 insight bonus to AC item right now.

Look at this item!

That's an item with +6 to UMD which stacks with the +5 from the gloves in the Titan!

+11 UMD!

You're got to tell me that's not more game altering than an item with +3 to AC?

ummmmm HOLY ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Overpowered much? Sorcerers dream item though. +500 SP and +6 to UMD along with everything else.

[Yaga_Nub]

ummmmm HOLY ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Overpowered much? Sorcerers dream item though. +500 SP and +6 to UMD along with everything else.

Actually it's +600 SP.

[Shade]

Yea it does look like we will be making allot of junk items to figure out whats best.

That sword is basicly junk because no the bonuses do not stack ,and no the 1st upgrade doesn't directly effect the 2nd.

All that matters in terms of accumlated bonuses is the element. So you went postive + positive, which is what gives it the true ressuection clicky, but you could of got the same clicky with a more ideal combo like this:
1st upgrade holy, 2nd upgrade +2 AC

will result in the same clicky, as there both stil positive.

How exactly the third tier works we cant be sure yet as we dont have enough results to tell. But im guessing it's 1 bonus effect based on the 3 elements chosen, previous actual effects not having an impact.

[Benjai]

Someone else has definatly made a 2nd upgrade for 2 ac having a different upgrade first, so I guess I'll be making a new sword (probably Holy then Acid Burst) then getting the assumed 3 ac final upgrade.

[Oreg]

Someone else has definatly made a 2nd upgrade for 2 ac having a different upgrade first, so I guess I'll be making a new sword (probably Holy then Acid Burst) then getting the assumed 3 ac final upgrade.

Unfortunately I think that i the way to go.

[Rekker]

Where does it say you get +6 UMD on they link Yaga referenced ? I read it as only +3. Is it listed as +6 elsewhere?

/sidetrack...so a Sorc can build this item, get 600 SP yet I can only build a +5 bursting weapon with a spell clickie for my Barbarian (not all that great), hardly equal items. Why waste the ingredients on a fighter type at all???

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Yup your best route would probably be to go +DM/EDM/XOE where X can be anything depending on what people discover is the 3rd level special upgrade... maybe EOE so you have two earths for a particularly earthy upgrade. Either way you'll end up with:

+5 holy green steel acid burst longsword
+3 ac
Stoneskin lvl 16 x2 per day
Mystery 3rd lvl upgrade (perhaps a Earth Elemental x2 per day)

(All guesses based on this)

Garth

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Where does it say you get +6 UMD on they link Yaga referenced ? I read it as only +3. Is it listed as +6 elsewhere?

The +1 stacks with the +2 and stacks with the +3 to give a total +6

Garth

[Oreg]

Where does it say you get +6 UMD on they link Yaga referenced ? I read it as only +3. Is it listed as +6 elsewhere?

/sidetrack...so a Sorc can build this item, get 600 SP yet I can only build a +5 bursting weapon with a spell clickie for my Barbarian (not all that great), hardly equal items. Why waste the ingredients on a fighter type at all???

If you look at the cha bonuses. they stack. And btw your 3rd upgrade isn't just a bursting weapon its a blasting, bursting, elemental damage weapon that you can keep using long after the sorc has used up his 600 spell points.

Edited below:
Imagine:

Material + Dominion + Positive = Wpn: Holy (2d6) (Altar 1)
Material + Dominion + Positive = Wpn: Good Burst (Altar 2)
Material + Dominion + Positive = Wpn: ??Good Blast (Altar 3)
with True ressurect and 1 other modifier

OR

Material + Dominion + Earth = Wpn: Acid (d6
Material + Dominion + Earth = Wpn: Acid Burst
Material + Dominion + Earth = Wpn: Acid Blast (4d6 on Natural "20" confirmed Crit)
with Aspect of Earth = Earth + Earth = Summon Dense Stone Earth Elemental (CR12) x 2 Click and 1 other modifier.

Hardly mediocre weapons