28pt. Human TWF Ranger feedback.

[AldosAC]

Hi guys, I wanted a bit of feedback on a 28pt. Human TWF Ranger build that I'm working on. It's a modification of Impaqt's 28pt. Human Ranger build (Found here.), but modified to take advantage of Tempest, the lev 16 cap, and my own personal preferences. Please note beforehand that the stats are all raw, no gear was taken into account (short of Tomes).

So here goes:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.80
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Azrus[_ Revell_
Level 16 Chaotic Good Human Male
(4 Fighter \ 1 Rogue \ 11 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 235
Spell Points: 100 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 15
Will: 4

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Stats          Modified Stats
Abilities        (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             16                    24
Dexterity            14                    20
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         12                    12
Wisdom               10                    10
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 16
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 16
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
Balance               6                     9
Bluff                -1                    -1
Concentration         2                     3
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device        5                    19
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                  0                     0
Hide                  6                     9
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  7                    11
Listen                0                     0
Move Silently         6                     9
Open Lock             6                    10
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     1
Search                5                    21
Spot                  4                    20
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                6                    18
Use Magic Device      3                    19

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness

Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead

Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility

Level 4 (Ranger)

Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Spring Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Ranger Search I
Enhancement: Ranger Spot I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I

Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Ranger Search II
Enhancement: Ranger Spot II

Level 7 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II

Level 8 (Ranger)

Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device

Level 10 (Ranger)

Level 11 (Ranger)

Level 12 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense II
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Ranger Search III
Enhancement: Ranger Spot III
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I

Level 13 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct

Level 14 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Dexterity II
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV

Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity III

Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II

A little explanation before people start commenting, I like Strength builds, and have no interest whatsoever in rolling a Dorf. For those of you about to suggest it, I appreciate the feedback, but you're wasting your time. The idea here is that I want a strong solo build, something that's not going to require a ton of super powerful gear or money to start up. Additionally, the Enhancement progression is not necessarily indicitive of when I'll actually take the enhancements, it was just awesomely tedious to go through the enhancements at every level in the Character Planner, so I jumped around a little with it. As for the skills, I more or less dropped Move Silently and Hide from Impaqt's build, as it doesn't really fit my playstyle. I took Tumble because... well, I have a great deal of fun rolling around like an idiot.

The last two levels I put into Fighter so I could have access to the Fighter 4 Enhancements, as well as the bonus feat. I ended up taking Weapon Spec - Slashing over Power Attack because I figured the +5 ATK I'd save would be worth the -3 DMG. If anyone strongly disagrees with this, I'd be happy to hear your suggestions. Additionally, I didn't decide on the last two levels being Fighter until the last minute, so any feedback on where those Fighter levels might fit better (or if they're fine where they're at) would be much appreciated.

My overall goals here are a well ballanced character, I'm looking for:
Good DPS
Good survivability
Rogue skills that'll handle most Normal/Hard content
Not needing to be level 12+ before being useful
The ability to roll around like an idiot.

I'd appreciate any feedback on how this build will do attaining those goals. I'm also interested in thoughts on how difficult it will be to level this build. It's important to me that I'm going to start seeing the build's power and utility manifest itself early on. Early level gear shouldn't be a problem, I've got some Mithril armor and low level elemental weapons that should help, as well as about 70k plat at my disposal.

Additionally, I'm wondering if anyone could suggest a way to wring 3AP out of the build so I can take Figher Haste I and II.

Thanks in advance!

[Impaqt]

Nice, I always did like that build....

Want 3 Action points? Thats easy.. DUmp Ranger Spot 3. Rangers got a cool spell a while pack (After I posted this build) called Wild Instincts..... +10 Spot and Listen....

Theres actually no reason to take ANY spot enhancments anymore.. Thats 6 ActionPoints....

[AldosAC]

Oh, no kiddin'? Awesome! I can always use more AP... :P

Yeah, I was toying with the idea of making a ranger, so ended up spending a bunch of time the other day browsing through the various ranger builds, and came across your 28 pt. Human ranger and thought "Perfect!". I've currently got a TWF Human Fighter that I love, she throws down some awesome DPS (OTWF with Bastard Swords, because I've a soft spot for Bastard Swords. :P), so I was looking for a TWF Strength build. On top of that, I don't have 32pt. builds unlocked yet (which really makes it difficult to find suitable builds). Your build made a great template, I'm just hoping I can adapt it to my playstyle without breaking it. :P

[Impaqt]

Templates are made to be broken......

I've never created a build thats perfect for everyone (Well, except for maybe my Dwarven Cleric )

[Westerner]

Taking Weapon specialization instead of PA is creative, and might pay dividends. On a TWF STR Ranger, the -5 to hit is enough to want to turn off PA sometimes, and you won't have to deal with any of that.

Thinking about when to take the fighter levels... I'll scribble down some thoughts:

Tempest is an add-on to TWF, more useful when you're high level than low
Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack doesn't do much except to enable Tempest
Natural breakpoint: Ranger 6, ITWF and Manyshot
Natural breakpoint: BAB +8, allows IC
Natural breakpoint: Ranger 11, GTWF and Improved Precise shot

I'd try to optimize around getting ITWF and IC by level 8, with the Tempest line to coincide with GTWF

[pjw]

Where would you put the extra 4pts for a 32 dp build? Wis for save and mana; or would you take it in a different direction entirely?

[Impaqt]

Tempest is a pretty sweet enhancment....

THe Spring attack line is great. ANyone who thinks otherwise has not solo'd much. Not having a -4 Penalty while moving is priceless and can easily mean the difference between life and death when alone ina dungeon.

[AldosAC]

THe Spring attack line is great. ANyone who thinks otherwise has not solo'd much. Not having a -4 Penalty while moving is priceless and can easily mean the difference between life and death when alone ina dungeon.

Soloing isn't even the biggest benefit of Spring Attack for me, most of my low level grouping is with ranged characters, which means I inevitably spend half my time chasing a mob swinging like an idiot. It's hard enough to hit a mob while my Ranger friend is trying to kite it halfway accross the map, having a -4 to hit while I'm doing it just doesn't improve the situation much.

I'd try to optimize around getting ITWF and IC by level 8, with the Tempest line to coincide with GTWF

Hrm... not a bad idea. I'll see if I can find some time today to shuffle things around a little and see how it works out.

Where would you put the extra 4pts for a 32 dp build? Wis for save and mana; or would you take it in a different direction entirely?

I'm having enough trouble sorting out this 28pt. build, I don't even want to consider 32pts right now. Someone else is more than welcome to provide suggestions though. :P

[Edit] After a little thought, I'd probably go Int or Con. If Int, probably Int to 14 and Wis to 12, or Int 14/Con 15. I'm not too worried about SP, as I suspect I'll only be using it for buffs. Beyond that, I'd probably dump the extra skill points into Pick Lock. 15 con would let me get away with using a +1 tome, or put a +3 tome to good use. As it is, my max HP with a +6 Con item and Greater False Life would only be 313, with a +3 Con tome bringing my Con to 18, I'd have 329. Small boost, but every bit helps.

Great feedback so far guys! Thanks a lot.

Update: I rolled the character last night and got him to level 2. I'm considering either taking WP: Khopesh a little earlier (as I've got some great low-level Khopeshes), or alternatively dropping the Khopesh entirely and using Scimitars (For originality's sake, I realize I'd be taking a hit on DPS awesomeness here). Either way, I've got a bit to decide on what I want to do.

Also switched my Enhancements around a little. Quick question, anyone know if Ranger Devotion's +10% to heals affects wand healing?

Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Armored Agility I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Dexterity II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense II
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II

[Westerner]

THe Spring attack line is great. ANyone who thinks otherwise has not solo'd much.

The same can be said of any situational benefit. I PUG mostly, and don't do a lot of swinging on the run. If I have to chase a mob, I cut it off, and swing a second in advance of contact. Works fine for me. YMMV.

It's a 3 feat investment that can optionally be delayed until Tempest without gimping core effectiveness.

[Yaga_Nub]

The same can be said of any situational benefit. I PUG mostly, and don't do a lot of swinging on the run. If I have to chase a mob, I cut it off, and swing a second in advance of contact. Works fine for me. YMMV.

It's a 3 feat investment that can optionally be delayed until Tempest without gimping core effectiveness.

I find the that the benefit isn't that I'm able to negate the -4 to hit while I'm moving but that I'm causing the mobs to have a -4 to hit while they are moving to intercept me. Moving during combat means a lot more flanking for you as well.

[Westerner]

I find the that the benefit isn't that I'm able to negate the -4 to hit while I'm moving but that I'm causing the mobs to have a -4 to hit while they are moving to intercept me. Moving during combat means a lot more flanking for you as well.

Interesting, thanks for mentioning. But is that worth 3 feats when grouping? What approx. value would you assign to that ability?

[AldosAC]

I've decided to switch the feat progressions a little bit, I'm grabbing Weapon proficiency: Khopesh at 3 and moving Mobility to 5, then Spring Attack to 6. I've got some great low-level Khopeshes, so I might as well make use of them. :P

[Yaga_Nub]

Interesting, thanks for mentioning. But is that worth 3 feats when grouping? What approx. value would you assign to that ability?

Do you mean when group with others?

If so then yes I still find it worth it. The critter that's chasing around the caster or cleric is a lot easier to hit without a -4 to your rolls. Plus there is always a time when tactics break down and your having to fend for yourself, the ability to move and still hit with a weapon that is more damage effective than a bow is a nice feature.

( For the record I'm not anti-bow but I do realize that you can generate more damage with a melee weapon MOST of the time)

[Westerner]

Do you mean when group with others?

Yes, that's what I meant. Personally, I'd have an easier time seeing it as 3 feats worth of value if Mobility was better. Dodge, ok I guess. Spring Attack, I'm buying your input. Mobility, meh. There was a thread a while back that suggested boosting Mobility to include a +2 AC standing bonus, that might do it.

[AldosAC]

Yeah, I can follow that. I love the prospects of Spring Attack, but Mobility is awesomely useless as far as I'm concerned. I mean, as I see it, the point of tumble is to not be there when they swing, so if I'm not standing there when they swing, what good does the +4 AC do me? I don't know, from my prospective it seems like a pretty useless feat. But, it nets me Tempest and Spring Attack, so I'll suck it up and deal with it. :P

[AldosAC]

Quick update for anyone that's interested. I've got this guy to level 4 now (I don't have much time to play on weekdays, so most of my leveling is done on the weekend) and he's great. Like most melees, he's still pretty vulnerable to nukes and fears, but he's sitting at 27AC (+2 Mith FP, +1 Heavy Steel Shield) with +8 ATK, with about a dozen different Khopeshes I swap out as needed. So far he's a blast, between my AC, wand heals, rogue skills, and great DPS I can fill in a lot of the gaps in any PUG. I did differ a little bit from my build in that I took a level of Fighter at 4 instead of 5 (I wanted to squeeze into my Mith FP). The current plan is to use Mithril FP with the Fighter Armored Agility I enhancement to counter the skill check penalty a little (should drop it to -1, which is doable) until I get Evasion, at which point I'll probably downgrade to a Mithril BP. Either way, the extra AC at this level is great. On top of that, my DPS is top notch, I run with a Halfling THF Barb and frequently match/beat his kill counts. Now I don't know how long I'll be able to keep up, but so far it's a great character. Extremely versatile, tons of survivability (did I mention 80HP at level 4? ), more than sufficient rogue skills (traps beware!), just all-around a great character. So far I'm pretty satisfied.