Making Rogue Sneak Attack Toggleable

[aurus33]

Dear DDO Developers: Please don't let players "should-be-able-to" this game to death.

*sigh*...

[oronisi]

seriously? is this really a reason to shoot down a good idea that would give your rogue a completely new tactical option?

toggles don't toggle themselves on death/logout anymore. once it's on, it'll always be on: just like IPS. It wouldn't need to be on your hotbar if you didn't want to reserve space for it: just like IPS.

Seriously, I don't trust any of those 'shouldnt toggle on death/logout' or 'shouldnt _____'. I have attack on a toolbar slot for all of my characters to be able to toggle auto attack on or off. Things like that have a way of toggling themselves when you least expect it, and if you don't have it on your toolbar, you'll have one heck of a time trying to fix it in the middle of combat. I've played PnP, DnD video games from the TSR greats, original NWN (on AOL), all the way through to DDO. I have NEVER ONCE wanted to deny a character his sneak (backstab if we are going back now) damage. So now why should it all the sudden be so needed? If you really want to be able to throttle your damage....you can throttle your damage! You have skills, enhancements, items, and feats that can all be used to manage your aggro on top of a simple but effective playstyle of regulating your attacks instead of swinging as fast as possible. If that isn't enough for you, you can always roll a dex fighter or ranger and splash rogue just like everybody else does.

I just see ample opportunity to meet these needs without requiring additional functionality within the game.

[Cap_Man]

If Sneak Attack could be toggled off, would that also 'turn off' any of the sneak attack enhancements (like SA Accuracy, SA Damage, Subtle Backstabber, etc). How would you see this affecting 'Backstabbing' weapons?

Not disagreeing with the OP just wondering how it would affect some of the other sneak attack related features of the game. The devil is in the details.

I use 'precision' when I want to cut down on my damage output while using stat damagers, banishers etc.

[MysticTheurge]

Seriously, I don't trust any of those 'shouldnt toggle on death/logout' or 'shouldnt _____'. I have attack on a toolbar slot for all of my characters to be able to toggle auto attack on or off.

Well there's your extra slot right there.

Auto-attack is now on the bar that shows your HP/SPs and can be toggled on and off from there.

It's also something of an oddity since there are other methods (besides clicking it on the hotbar) to turn it on.

[Cambo]

Well there's your extra slot right there.

Auto-attack is now on the bar that shows your HP/SPs and can be toggled on and off from there.

It's also something of an oddity since there are other methods (besides clicking it on the hotbar) to turn it on.

if you use the toggle on the helath bar does it show you if its on or off...i know the toggle is there but last time i tried it i still had to look at the tool bar to see which way i toggled it.

And yes pelase make sneak attack toggle. I think I requested this when level cap was 10 but we know those posts are lon gone....

Tactics are fine...but i have taken aggro off the main tank on occasison with a shield and cursespewing dagger (+1) due to sneak attack...all I wanted to do was hit him and curse him...and I got crunched. Let a lone dual weilding with GTWF and banishing/smiting rapiers with the extra crit range.

[MysticTheurge]

if you use the toggle on the helath bar does it show you if its on or off...i know the toggle is there but last time i tried it i still had to look at the tool bar to see which way i toggled it.

It seems a bit buggy, but sort of.

When I have something targeted, it shows on/off properly. With nothing targeted, it looks as though autoattack is off, even if it's really on.

[DNDJESS]

I really don't see the point of disabling your sneak attack. Remember, along with losing the damage, you're also losing the bonus to-hit that comes with sneak attacking.

If your goal is a high to-hit bonus and low aggro, there are several options:

-subtle backstabbing
-low strength, high dex, and weapon finesse
-precision feat

If you go with all 3, you can hit pretty much every time, and won't draw much aggro.

[Cambo]

I really don't see the point of disabling your sneak attack. Remember, along with losing the damage, you're also losing the bonus to-hit that comes with sneak attacking.

If your goal is a high to-hit bonus and low aggro, there are several options:

-subtle backstabbing
-low strength, high dex, and weapon finesse
-precision feat

If you go with all 3, you can hit pretty much every time, and won't draw much aggro.

I have all of the above and often take agro from our guild paladin or fighters..(not Barbs so much)

[DNDJESS]

I have all of the above and often take agro from our guild paladin or fighters..(not Barbs so much)

Even if you could turn off backstabbing, there is no guarantee that you will never get aggro in any situation. If you're getting aggro regularly and you have all of the above that I listed, the problem is either with you attacking mobs that the warriors and paladins aren't, or your guild has awfully weak paladins and warriors.

[BlueLightBandit]

I'm not sure what these responses have to do with the OP.

Like IPS, a rogue should be able to decide whether he wants to deal extra damage via sneak attack or not. That's all there really is to it.

Maybe, but the solution already given to us by the devs is:

"If you don't want to use sneak attack on your rogue, don't swing your weapon"

Better yet, use that charisma thing and put some points into intimidate, grab aggro, and THEN swing away. Your sneak attack bonuses will be gone.

Nobody said playing a rogue was easy. It's a class with a lot of "nuances." The only reason I could possibly think of to NOT use the sneak attack bonuses would be NOT grab aggro. Diplomacy takes care of this, but you have to pay attention to the mobs and to the damage you're doing to know when to use it.

Basically, DDO is all about "Kill them before they kill you." That being said, leave sneak attack alone, and kill things. If your rogue draws aggro... use intimidate. No dev intervention needed.

If your rogue has a higher intel score than your player, there's not much the devs can do to fix that, is there? Any rogue with an intel of 10 would know when to attack and when not to, when to use diplomacy and when not to. Why can't your player? (IIRC an intel score of 10 roughly equates to a 100 IQ... right?)

[DNDJESS]

If your rogue draws aggro... use intimidate. No dev intervention needed.

So if you're drawing too much aggro.......draw more aggro?

[Luthen]

The title says it all.

Rangers got it for improved precise shot.

Rogues should have it for sneak attack.

When you are trying to banish or vorpal or just not draw aggro and do so much damage you should have the option of not sneak attacking. I really enjoy the new content a lot, but running the spider quest last night I could barely attack anything for fear of killing them so I just sat around while the sorcerers fingered everything. Meanwhile in the eladrin stronghold I died 4 times because no one else in the party could do anywhere near as much damage as me to the whirling displaced elves. I would have much preferred to just concentrate on vorpaling or debuffing but all I got was aggro and beatdown from light ray spam.

From what I can tell rangers got the toggle because they were drawing too much aggro and could not control their tactics. Why do rogues continue to get so little dev love? Having tactical variety is something that I think should be encouraged, especially in such an oft maligned class like the rogue.

Diplomacy is your friend. Learn it. Use it. Love it!!