Seek Eternal Rest :)

[parvo]

Seek Eternal Rest.

If you haven't tried this on your turn specced Cleric you should. My guess is Turbine didn't test it.

[Kalanth]

That good, eh?

[parvo]

Yes. At low levels, it's stupid-good. At higher levels, I'm sure it's still very good. What is the highest bonus you get for an items Sacred Bonus?

[parvo]

Oh C'mon! Ask me "How good is it?"!!!

[Montrose]

Oh C'mon! Ask me "How good is it?"!!!

"How good is it?"

[parvo]

"How good is it?"

I thought you'd never ask! teehee...

Level four Cleric:
Turning Check: 15 Hit Dice. (This was the max)
Turning Damage: 26 Hit dice (Not sure if this was the max)

[transtemporal]

If you haven't tried this on your turn specced Cleric you should. My guess is Turbine didn't test it.

Agreed. I found it by accident on my turning-spec cleric in the weekend. In my testing it didn't allow me to destroy or cower everything in my path (Wight Myrmidons, ghosts, spectres and wraiths proved highly resistant), but it did allow me to be pretty effective in quests 2-3 levels above (so hard and elite in other words). This is on a purpose-built turning-spec cleric with max cha, all the enhancements, feats and eagles splendour running though. It worked OK on my non-turning-spec cleric, meaning I was actually able to cower and occasionally destroy undead in level approrpiate content, rather than waste my time pressing the button. Still wasn't all that effective on content 2-3 levels above, but thats OK.

There was a bit of a "ohhh ahhh" moment in Deleras when my cleric (5) destroyed every undead in the room. That was pretty cool. First time shes been ahead in the kill count.

Don't really understand why the spell icon is a ham, or why the active icon when you cast it is the jump icon, but hey I can live with that.

[transtemporal]

Addendum: Just did some interesting testing:

Level 5 cleric (running 21 cha, eagles splendor (+7 cha bonus total), sacred necklace (+2 to level), seek eternal rest (+4 to level), improved turning feat (+1 to level), improved turning I enhancement(+1 to level))
Turning check: 12hd min, 17hd max
Turning damage: 22hd min, 32hd max

Two interesting things I noted that might need to be independently verified:
1) Although the sacred item description says that it +2 sacred bonus to the clerics effective level for the purposes of turning checks, I'm pretty sure its adding to turning damage too.
2) Although its possible to roll results higher than 22 for the turning check, the check is capped at "22 and higher" (or "cleric level +4") as per the SRD.

I just don't know how this is going to stack up at endgame. A lot of undead have a lot more HD than CR, so I have a feeling I'll be cowering, but not destroying a lot of undead. Still, it'll be fun finding out.

[parvo]

Addendum: Just did some interesting testing:

Level 5 cleric (running 21 cha, eagles splendor (+7 cha bonus total), sacred necklace (+2 to level), seek eternal rest (+4 to level), improved turning feat (+1 to level), improved turning I enhancement(+1 to level))
Turning check: 12hd min, 17hd max
Turning damage: 22hd min, 32hd max

Two interesting things I noted that might need to be independently verified:
1) Although the sacred item description says that it +2 sacred bonus to the clerics effective level for the purposes of turning checks, I'm pretty sure its adding to turning damage too.
2) Although its possible to roll results higher than 22 for the turning check, the check is capped at "22 and higher" (or "cleric level +4") as per the SRD.

I just don't know how this is going to stack up at endgame. A lot of undead have a lot more HD than CR, so I have a feeling I'll be cowering, but not destroying a lot of undead. Still, it'll be fun finding out.

I concur with the results here. I found the same when my Priest hit five. I no longer have any high level clerics but I think this change is probably fairly balanced near the cap. But it's crazy at low levels.

Reason for the tasty ham spell icon and the jump buff icon? They rushed this change for mod six.

[transtemporal]

I concur with the results here. I found the same when my Priest hit five. I no longer have any high level clerics but I think this change is probably fairly balanced near the cap. But it's crazy at low levels.

It is pretty cool but this is on my turning-spec cleric. My regular healer isn't nearly as good.

Most of the time I'm not destroying the tough undead, just cowering them. Even with an effective turning level of 13 I still don't have twice their HD. Sometimes I can't even cower them because they come in sufficent numbers that I don't have the turning damage to affect them.

I'm probably just quibbling to cover the fact that its *ahem* mildly overpowered.

[captain1z]

ZOMG



/loggs onto cleric

[parvo]

It is pretty cool but this is on my turning-spec cleric. My regular healer isn't nearly as good.

Most of the time I'm not destroying the tough undead, just cowering them. Even with an effective turning level of 13 I still don't have twice their HD. Sometimes I can't even cower them because they come in sufficent numbers that I don't have the turning damage to affect them.

I'm probably just quibbling to cover the fact that its *ahem* mildly overpowered.

Mildly...

All I can think about is poor Rogues with that pathetic Way of the Assasin ability...

[Mad_Bombardier]

parvo, I thought you might be interested in my work on Turn Undead, best possible scenario. I'm not 100% sure on the stacking and application of bonuses, but see what you think. We have been told that DDO Turn Undead uses the Turn Undead rules directly from PnP.

'Seek Eternal Rest' Sacred(+4) stacks with Sacred enhancement item(+2) for the effective caster level. Improved Turning feat adds another +1 and Cleric Improved Turning III adds +3 Cleric Level for turning. One feat + enhancements + 1 spell + 2 items (Eternal Faith & Flame Aegis) = +10 effective level for turning, +2 max HD, +6 Turn Damage.

The only thing I'm not sure about is whether Sacred & Seek Eternal Rest and Improved Turning apply only to Turn Check, or also apply to Cleric Level for Destroying undead. Sacred reads as, "Sacred - Increases your level by 2 for turning purposes." Which implies that it could count toward all Cleric level portions of the calculation, too. I'll include it as in the best case scenario. As a best case scenario, lets use a fully "turn spec'd" Cleric with 28 CHA and a boosted, effective Cleric Level 24 for Turning.

Cleric Level 16 + 1 [Imp Turn] + 3 [ImpTurn III] + 2 [Sacred] + 4 [Seek Eternal Rest] = 26 effective Cleric Level for turning
Turn Check: 1d20 + CHA mod = Cleric Level + (0 to 4) Max HD turned
Cleric Level (26) + (0-4) + 2 [Hallowed] = 28-32 Max HD turned
Turn Damage: 2d6 + Cleric Level + CHA mod + 6 total HD [Flame Aegis] = 43-53 HD undead able to be turned (max 53 total HD turned).
Undead under 1/2 your effective Cleric level (26) = 13 HD are destroyed.

So, a fully "turn spec'd" Cleric can potentially turn 43-53 total HD worth of undead, with no single undead being over 28-32HD, and any undead <13 HD being destroyed. That's about 3-4 high level Undead turned. Now, we're starting to get somewhere with turning!

[transtemporal]

Nice work Mad!

The only thing I'm not sure about is whether Sacred/Seek Eternal Rest and Improved Turning apply only to Turn Check, or also apply to Cleric Level for Destroying undead. Sacred reads as, "Sacred - Increases your level by 2 for turning purposes." Which implies that it could count toward all Cleric level portions of the calculation, too.

Sacred description "increases the owners effective level by 2 for the purposes of the turning check" however, I'm fairly certain its adding to turning damage as well, otherwise I'm getting an extra 2 HD turn damage I can't explain. If you're doing any testing, could you confirm or deny?

With Seek Eternal Rest, Improved Turning feat and Improved Turning enhancement the bonus is untyped and it just increases the characters level for turning (doesn't specify whether turning check or turning damage so I assume both). In any case, they all seem to be stacking for both turning check and turning damage.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Nice work Mad!

Sacred description "increases the owners effective level by 2 for the purposes of the turning check" however, I'm fairly certain its adding to turning damage as well, otherwise I'm getting an extra 2 HD turn damage I can't explain. If you're doing any testing, could you confirm or deny?

With Seek Eternal Rest, Improved Turning feat and Improved Turning enhancement the bonus is untyped and it just increases the characters level for turning (doesn't specify whether turning check or turning damage so I assume both). In any case, they all seem to be stacking for both turning check and turning damage.

Yes, Turn Damage includes "effective Cleric level," which is boosted by Seek Eternal Rest in my above example (which is purely theoretical, not tested).

But, Seek Eternal Rest is clearly listed as a "Sacred" bonus to effective cleric level in the spell description. So, it should not stack with Sacred items/Chainmail Coif/Seraphim/Gauntlets of Eternal Faith.

[Bekki]

I agree, I went into Missing ward "on Elite"
with my level 3 Cleric and it was awesome.

I turned everything! (Save Gerti of course)

It was sweet, Had the Tank Jump Gerti.
Was escorting my son (A noob) and it made Life much easier!

We then Took on Daggers and Again my little cleric was A Turning machine!
Turned everything but the end boss.

[Bekki]

I can't wait to Take on Quests like
"Archbishop Dryen's" and "Delarea's" and see how it works!

[parvo]

parvo, I thought you might be interested in my work on Turn Undead, best possible scenario. I'm not 100% sure on the stacking and application of bonuses, but see what you think. We have been told that DDO Turn Undead uses the Turn Undead rules directly from PnP.

'Seek Eternal Rest' boosts Sacred item(+2) to Sacred(+4) for the effective caster level. Improved Turning feat adds another +1 and Cleric Improved Turning III adds +3 Cleric Level for turning. One feat + enhancements + 1 spell + 2 items (Eternal Faith & Flame Aegis) = +8 effective level for turning, +2 max HD, +6 Turn Damage.

The only thing I'm not sure about is whether Sacred/Seek Eternal Rest and Improved Turning apply only to Turn Check, or also apply to Cleric Level for Destroying undead. Sacred reads as, "Sacred - Increases your level by 2 for turning purposes." Which implies that it could count toward all Cleric level portions of the calculation, too. I'll include it as in the best case scenario. As a best case scenario, lets use a fully "turn spec'd" Cleric with 28 CHA and a boosted, effective Cleric Level 24 for Turning.

Cleric Level 16 + 1 [Imp Turn] + 3 [ImpTurn III] + 4 [Seek Eternal Rest] = 24 effective Cleric Level for turning
Turn Check: 1d20 + CHA mod = Cleric Level + (0 to 4) Max HD turned
Cleric Level (24) + (0-4) + 2 [Hallowed] = 26-30 Max HD turned
Turn Damage: 2d6 + Cleric Level + CHA mod + 6 total HD [Flame Aegis] = 41-51 HD undead able to be turned (max 51 total HD turned).
Undead under 1/2 your effective Cleric level (24) = 12 HD are destroyed.

So, a fully "turn spec'd" Cleric can potentially turn 41-51 total HD worth of undead, with no single undead being over 26-30HD, and any undead <12 HD being destroyed. That's about 3-4 high level Undead turned. Now, we're starting to get somewhere with turning!

I'm not familiar with the end-game items. What is the Eternal Flame and Flame Aegis? In any case, unless they changed it with the last update, the item related Sacred Bonus and the Sacred bonus for the spell Seek Eternal Rest are stacking. My level five cleric has an effective level of 13 for turning undead. He can (and I tested this) turn undead with 17 hit dice. I don't know how to test the deystroy part, but if you know an undead with exactly 8 hit dice, I'll test it.

[parvo]

Yes, Turn Damage includes "effective Cleric level," which is boosted by Seek Eternal Rest in my above example (which is purely theoretical, not tested).

But, Seek Eternal Rest is clearly listed as a "Sacred" bonus to effective cleric level in the spell description. So, it should not stack with Sacred items/Chainmail Coif/Seraphim/Gauntlets of Eternal Faith.

What do you think is more likely, it was intended to stack or wasn't tested?

[MrCow]

I don't know how to test the deystroy part, but if you know an undead with exactly 8 hit dice, I'll test it.

Here ya go:

Just keep in mind you probably can't destroy the 8 HD undead with turning resistance on your cleric if he maxes at 17 HD of turning. Also, sometimes turning is a bit funky on the destroying part and may be lower or higher than it should (1 HD zombies in Steal the Ancient Daggers sometimes gets destroyed on a turn check of 1 HD instead of being cowered).

Name			CR	Difficulty	HD	TurnResist
Mummy			5	Normal		8	0
Skeleton Swordsman	5	Elite		8	0
Arcane Skeleton		5	Elite		8	0
Shadow			7	Normal		8	2
Skeleton Arcus		6	Normal		8	0
Wight Myrmidon		7	Normal		8	0
Drifting Marauder	8	Normal		8-9	2