Would it be possible for Sorcs to get a "change all spells" choice?

[Tenkari_Rozahas]

I thought in PnP Sorcs/Bards could completely swap out their spell lists at level up....

[Ildaron]

Are we forgetting something here?

The Wizard's power is not in the fact he can swap out spells at will. His power is in the fact he is overall a much better spell caster. With Mod 6 he has 4 free meta magic feats (1 at level 1, 2nd at level 5, 3rd at level 10, and the 4th at level 15.) Planning your wizard right you have, maxamize, heighten, extend, & empower for free at the moment. Not to mention your level up feats. Mental Toughness, Improved Mental Toughness, how about some school specialities for better DCs?

The Sorc casts faster? Big deal I'm not casting so quickly I am getting aggro. We are doing the FoD, PK combo, my Wizards spell school specality helps beat the sorcs and I have the feats to burn to take both. If I go elf I have some bonus SP from eleven arcanum to boot.

My main is a Sorc, but I love my Wizzie to death he is no less then my sorc and can do more when I choose to. My current Wizzie is a Neco speced Sorc. He does some buffing but not a lot. Party wants me to leave because my spell layout isn't what they wouldn't want it to be.. guess what they would boot the sorc out for not having that spell either. (I have another wiz for buffing and entracement).

Now am I saying I support this change? Nope. But lets not pretend the only advantage Wizards have is swapping out their spell. Lets also not forget Wizards got the Sorc advantage of casting spells at will, and can cast more of them. Capped Sorc 1 level 8. Capped Wiz...

[brshelton]

i agree what if i want to respec from fire to acid or nuke to charm? im screwed! set an obscenely long timer on it maybe a week MINIMUM prefer a month or 2

[Emili]

Are we forgetting something here?

The Wizard's power is not in the fact he can swap out spells at will. His power is in the fact he is overall a much better spell caster. With Mod 6 he has 4 free meta magic feats (1 at level 1, 2nd at level 5, 3rd at level 10, and the 4th at level 15.) Planning your wizard right you have, maxamize, heighten, extend, & empower for free at the moment. Not to mention your level up feats. Mental Toughness, Improved Mental Toughness, how about some school specialities for better DCs?

The Sorc casts faster? Big deal I'm not casting so quickly I am getting aggro. We are doing the FoD, PK combo, my Wizards spell school specality helps beat the sorcs and I have the feats to burn to take both. If I go elf I have some bonus SP from eleven arcanum to boot.

My main is a Sorc, but I love my Wizzie to death he is no less then my sorc and can do more when I choose to. My current Wizzie is a Neco speced Sorc. He does some buffing but not a lot. Party wants me to leave because my spell layout isn't what they wouldn't want it to be.. guess what they would boot the sorc out for not having that spell either. (I have another wiz for buffing and entracement).

Now am I saying I support this change? Nope. But lets not pretend the only advantage Wizards have is swapping out their spell. Lets also not forget Wizards got the Sorc advantage of casting spells at will, and can cast more of them. COLOR="Red"]Capped Sorc 1 level 8. Capped Wiz... [/COLOR]

Capped wiz is three loaded... yes a wiz has 31 spells loaded? I'd have to look at mine off-hand do not remember... needless to say a sorc muscles thru a quest with shear casting speed and repeatition of spell if neccessary, while a decked out wizard is meta and feat based. To be honest I do not know the last time I changed out a spell on my wizard? Is no doubt though that a sorc in hands of a power gamer will fair better than a wizard in the same hands just due to the heavy spamming a sorc is capable if by comparison.

[Ildaron]

Capped wiz is three loaded... yes a wiz has 31 spells loaded? I'd have to look at mine off-hand do not remember... needless to say a sorc muscles thru a quest with shear casting speed and repeatition of spell if neccessary, while a decked out wizard is meta and feat based. To be honest I do not know the last time I changed out a spell on my wizard? Is no doubt though that a sorc in hands of a power gamer will fair better than a wizard in the same hands just due to the heavy spamming a sorc is capable if by comparison.

For the Gianthold for the most part anything you didn't FoD you could make dance. In the rare case you couldn't do both you made em stone!

Orchard, firewall and disengrate.

Just now Sorcerors can cast both FoD and Dancing sphere. (Remember our only 7th level spell FoD being useless inside?) Wizzie had both. Having a few extra spells at the right level (also an earlier level then a sorceror) is another thing wizards have over sorcerors. I'm not saying Sorcerors are bad, but it is not that the only thing Wizards have over Sorcerors is being able to swap spells. Having more high level spells is a huge advantage.

Right now I am trying to figure out how to add to more spells in my spell list. Want to add in Flesh to Stone (I accidently took chain lightening and I love the damage to multiple mobs) but I need Greater Herosim for my UMD for raise scolls and cure wands (oh yeah and meeles). I want to add in enversion, but I love DD, need force missiles for when those demon cats are around (dodge lightening for no damage), but am thinking of tossing out soild fog haven't used it in awhile.

[Invalid_86]

It's a deal, but Wizards have to memorize their spells at the start of the day, including deciding which meta feats will be applied to each spell they want to cast that day.

Mmmmm...memorizing spells. That would be huge in balancing magic in the game. Too bad we won't see it.

[oronisi]

And unlike P&P, DDO allows switching direction of melee - Fred, the Mindflayer, can change your feats for a price. Therefore /signed, but *only* if price is sufficient.

What's sufficient price? How about this:

• spell level 1-3: flawed dragonshard + (spell level^2 * 1000) gold
• spell level 4-6: imperfect dragonshard + (spell level^2 * 1000) gold
• spell level 7-9: normal dragonshard + (spell level^2 * 1000) gold

So it'll cost a flawed dragonshard + 4k gold to change a level 2 spell or a dragonshard + 49k gold to change a level 7 spell, if you want to avoid 3-day timer.

Considering this only saves some time, not allows something completely new, I don't see a problem with this price.

However as I have 2 sorcerers (14 and 16), I also see another problem: the beauty of being a sorcerer is they can't tell you to switch your favorite level 6 spell for flesh to stone, because, ugh, you can't. You're good at what you do and everyone else have to accept it (or kick you out of the party). But this addition will ruin this aspect of playing a sorcerer, so I wonder, if that's what we, sorcerers, really want.

What?! How can you say sorcs need more spell swapping power...then cite Fred and feat swaps as an example. Feat swaps work on a 3 day timer and require alot of money. Guess what you can currently do as a sorc? Swap a spell every 3 days for alot of plat!

[Uska]

I thought in PnP Sorcs/Bards could completely swap out their spell lists at level up....

No one spell every other level

[Lorien_the_First_One]

i agree what if i want to respec from fire to acid or nuke to charm? im screwed! set an obscenely long timer on it maybe a week MINIMUM prefer a month or 2

How does that screw you? So for a while you do a bit of nuking and a bit of charming... actually, you might want to try that, a sorc should have some balance.

[Geonis]

Hmm . . . a little advice:

Some character planning can go a long way to avoid this problem.

Easy to say when you came in a year after my Sorc was created.

[SkyCry]

How's this- we can do this if we actually apply the real spellcasting rules to Sorcerors. Spell points go way down. No more double spell points from items. Start casting as slow as a Wizard- or even slower if you are using metamagics. Deal?

It's a deal, but Wizards have to memorize their spells at the start of the day, including deciding which meta feats will be applied to each spell they want to cast that day.

And what about having to memorize each spell exactly as many times as you want to cast it? Then having 3 8th level spell slots suddenly doesn't seem quite enough, does it?

[Invalid_86]

And what about having to memorize each spell exactly as many times as you want to cast it? Then having 3 8th level spell slots suddenly doesn't seem quite enough, does it?

It will when you realize that the quests can them be balanced without the assumption that people will just spam cast their 8th level spells, that metamagics will be properly implemented, and that the gap between the usefulness of pure casters vs multiclass casters will close a bit. That's pretty cool.

[TFPAQ]

You do get to change out all of your spells already.....

It's called a Wizard......

[Uska]

Mmmmm...memorizing spells. That would be huge in balancing magic in the game. Too bad we won't see it.

yeah sorcerers casting slower when using meta-magics and only swaping one spell every other level that would be a huge balance to magic dont you think

[Invalid_86]

yeah sorcerers casting slower when using meta-magics and only swaping one spell every other level that would be a huge balance to magic dont you think

You apparently don't understand the wizard/sorcerer dynamic in 3.5.

[Vienemen]

You apparently don't understand the wizard/sorcerer dynamic in 3.5.

Sounds to me like he has a decent grasp of it

[Invalid_86]

Sounds to me like he has a decent grasp of it

Not really. If, as we were discussing, Wizards in DDO had to memorize spells instead of casting on the fly the upside would be faster metamagics and equal casting time on regular spells. That's a 3.5 Wizard perk. They also should get specializations, which greatly narrows the gap in spells per day between Wizards and Sorcerers. And, as I already stated, there are also other balance benefits. There is a bigger picture here.

Problem being of course that we started out with spell points so we are kinda stuck with them.

[SkyCry]

What?! How can you say sorcs need more spell swapping power...then cite Fred and feat swaps as an example. Feat swaps work on a 3 day timer and require alot of money. Guess what you can currently do as a sorc? Swap a spell every 3 days for alot of plat!

How many feats does an average character have? How many spells does a sorcerer have? Go figure...

[smatt]

Hmmmm, there's already a "change all spells" option for Sorcs......


REROLL

[Uska]

You apparently don't understand the wizard/sorcerer dynamic in 3.5.

Yes I do but this isnt 3.5 only based on it. Sorcerers are fine here.