Would it be possible for Sorcs to get a "change all spells" choice?

[Geonis]

Now, I'm not talking an every 3 days thing here. It could lock out all spells swaps for like a month or so, but I hate taking my Sorc out of comission for 3-4 weeks while changing out 1 spells every 3 days.

[Uska]

Might be to hard to set up, but you actually getting a better deal then sorcerers do in pnp and much better then they did at first in this game.

[Memnir]

/not signed
The three-day spec out is already more than generous, in my opinion.

[Dariuss]

yah, /not signed for me as well.... the three day spell swap out is more than enough to corect for any errors or mechanics changes...

(my main is a sorc btw)

[GlassCannon]

/not signed
The three-day spec out is already more than generous, in my opinion.

You clearly don't have 3 sorcs on your account, and no wizards. You clearly do not and will not understand.



thread /signed

[sirgog]

I'd be a fan of this, but perhaps with a high cost (Siberis Dragonshard and 50k PP perhaps).


As the game changes, spells that used to be the stone cold nuts become less and less effective, and spells that used to be useless (like Banishment) become excellent. It'd be good to have a more efficient way of changing spells, albeit at a fair cost.

[GlassCannon]

I'd be a fan of this, but perhaps with a high cost (Siberis Dragonshard and 50k PP perhaps).

If you mail every sorc on the server that 50k PP I will be game for that.

My sorc will never have more than 10k PP. Ever.

[Uska]

You clearly don't have 3 sorcs on your account, and no wizards. You clearly do not and will not understand.



thread /signed

And you clearly dont get dnd besides wizards dont have a problem and with a proper played sorcerer 3 days is plenty.

[sirgog]

If you mail every sorc on the server that 50k PP I will be game for that.

My sorc will never have more than 10k PP. Ever.

Surprised, I have no trouble making a lot of plat at the moment.


Especially as people seem to buy the Shavarrath energy cells on the AH for 8-10 times what the vendor at the end of part 3 of the Shroud sells them for...

[Memnir]

You clearly don't have 3 sorcs on your account, and no wizards. You clearly do not and will not understand.

Au contraire... my first character to level cap was a Sorc. Just because I don't agree does not mean I don't play one. I understand perfectly well, and the three-day system is still more then generous.

[PhoenixRajoNight]

Honestly i dont care either way for the most part, but a little of me would like to see the 3 day respec reset if you level, so if you level u can change out a spell even if you just did so 5 mins earlier before the lvl.

[Ghoste]

You clearly don't have 3 sorcs on your account, and no wizards. You clearly do not and will not understand.



thread /signed

Of course! How could someone who doesn't see it your way possibly understand anything? It baffles the mind, doesn't it?

[Uska]

The balance is the Sorcerers get more spell points base and more from items. Wizards get to be more flexible. That's balance

[SCPRedMage]

Let me see if I get this straight...

Because YOU think that trading versatility for raw spamming-power is an unbalanced trade off, you think the System Reference Document, the rules for the PEN AND PAPER game, not the MMO, needs to be changed? Despite never really playing the PnP game?

Wow. Just... wow.

Or did you mean a different "SRD" acronym?

Anyways, let me lay some game design down on you all.

In pen and paper D&D, sorcs only get to trade out ONE spell at level-up, every OTHER level. The point is that they're not SUPPOSED to be able to do a major change abilities like a wizard can. The only reason sorcs can change out spells in PnP is because some spells are great at lower levels, but just don't age very well. The only reason sorcs can change out spells in the MMO is because sometimes changes happen that make a spell a less desirable choice.

If you give sorcerers the ability to change out their spells en masse, you might as well just ask them to remove wizards while they're at it.

[Lithic]

I wouldnt have a problem with this as long as:

1) All spell swaps locked out for a long time (week-month)
2) The cost would be at least double the price of individually changing ALL spells at the trainer. According to the new formula, (cost= <char level^2>*spell level*100), it would currently cost a sorc 256kpp to change out every spell. Therefore this service should cost at LEAST 500kpp. Is it expensive? Yes. Don't want to pay that much? Make better spell choices, or be happy changing out one spell at a time and only the spells you really need to change.

*points Glasscannon to sig, which currently holds a pure sorc, pure wiz and sorc hybrid...*
But then again since I don't have THREE sorcs you probably won't take my opinion seriously

[Emili]

The balance is the Sorcerers get more spell points base and more from items. Wizards get to be more flexible. That's balance

Plus the sorc gets faster casting to make up for the fact in PnP they're non-prepared casters (Bards did not get this and they are also but beside the point). The wizard is behind the sorc by anywhere from 400-800 sp then top top it off a wizard gets put into the role of being a buff bot because a sorc can claim - I do not have that spell - but everyone knows a wizard does so then wizards get to spam buff the party thus usually leaving about 1k sp for them to play with in quests - mind you because of meta's and other things a wizards spells are often more potent then sorc (they get more meta's so can cover more territory and actually become more damaging quicker) BUT!!!!! because a sorc has fast cast they can always outcast a wizard to the target most the time so the sorc normally takes care of mob much sooner. Playing a wiz behind a sorc in a group can be frustrating because the sorc spams thru the mob so quickly that most everything the wizard targets is taken care of already or the poor wiz wastes the little sp they have to play with on something already downed by the sorc. Then we have the last mod where scrolls are only available from chests - thus it will be a while before wizards get the flexibility of switching out lvl 8 and later 9 spells, whereas a soorc can do so every three days. Now seeing the new loot drop it will not be long before higher potency and lore items are available too... so when it comes to higher lvl spells a sorc actually has an advantage right now unless a wizard wishes to spend 1-2 mill plat on the ah to gather up 8th level spells (and later 9th).

The only way I'd agree to have a full spell reset would be if they do the same with the feat respec UI system.

/not signed

[ViVid7th]

The baseline for Sorcs and Wizards are completely different.

Wizards pick their spells for what they will face next. Being easy to swap out spells when needed allows them to specialize in the next encounter like how a melee can swap between Banes. For this flexibility they have fewer spells per rest (spell points).

Sorcs need to plan for their overall role in a party or solo. They need to plan ahead and pick and choose their spells to get as little overlap and as much overall coverage as possible. This normally means leaving out situational spells that are almost godly in the right conditions but soso normally for spells that will be good to great in most conditions. This means that they have to be planned out for a direction (CC, Nuker, Buff Bot, etc) from the start, or try to pickup a generalized selection of useful spells. They give up the flexibility of Wizards to gain more spell points.

If you decide you want to completely change the direction of your Sorc it should be treated as changing the complete direction of a Melee (From TWF to THF for example). Since it is a class you need to plan from the get go, deciding to change that direction shouldn't be easy. It needs to be time and plat consuming that hurts the character's ability to perform during the transition. This needs to be done to actually push that these classes need to be planned.

So no, no one shot complete respec for Sorcs. Wizards shouldn't get all their spells handed to them for free, and Sorcs shouldn't be able to swap character plans on a whim. 1 spell swap every 3 days is reasonable because DDO is a changing environment.

[SkyCry]

If you decide you want to completely change the direction of your Sorc it should be treated as changing the complete direction of a Melee (From TWF to THF for example). Since it is a class you need to plan from the get go, deciding to change that direction shouldn't be easy. It needs to be time and plat consuming that hurts the character's ability to perform during the transition. This needs to be done to actually push that these classes need to be planned.

And unlike P&P, DDO allows switching direction of melee - Fred, the Mindflayer, can change your feats for a price. Therefore /signed, but *only* if price is sufficient.

What's sufficient price? How about this:

• spell level 1-3: flawed dragonshard + (spell level^2 * 1000) gold
• spell level 4-6: imperfect dragonshard + (spell level^2 * 1000) gold
• spell level 7-9: normal dragonshard + (spell level^2 * 1000) gold

So it'll cost a flawed dragonshard + 4k gold to change a level 2 spell or a dragonshard + 49k gold to change a level 7 spell, if you want to avoid 3-day timer.

Considering this only saves some time, not allows something completely new, I don't see a problem with this price.

However as I have 2 sorcerers (14 and 16), I also see another problem: the beauty of being a sorcerer is they can't tell you to switch your favorite level 6 spell for flesh to stone, because, ugh, you can't. You're good at what you do and everyone else have to accept it (or kick you out of the party). But this addition will ruin this aspect of playing a sorcerer, so I wonder, if that's what we, sorcerers, really want.

[ViVid7th]

And unlike PnP, DDO allows switching of spells for Sorcs outside of leveling. Both feats and Sorc spells can only be swapped one at a time and once every 3 days. It takes melee longer to switch out entire feat chains because of how the feat swapping system works, but a melee changing from TWF to THF doesn't do it over night and neither should a Sorc. A Melee swapping from chain to chain slowly losses power in one direction while gaining it in another, they become a limbo character which isn't great with either for about a month or two (because every feat in the chain from top to bottom needs to be changed for filler then you have to swap the filler for the correct chain. This is because Fred knows your levels and won't allow you to break a feat or go backwards in a feat chain aka a feat you pickup at level 15 won't count toward a requirement for a feat you swap into your 9th level feat slot.)

These 'once every three days' are needed and work because they still push the need to plan a character and make good choices, yet allow a character a course of action if a Feat or Spell becomes heavily nerffed to the point of uselessness or if a previously nerffed feat becomes buffed, or if new ones are added, or if their character concept just got made pointless in a patch. DDO is a changing environment and needs some way to change characters.

If they decide to do this "full spell swap" then they better do the same for Feats as well, and remove Wizards from the game while they are at it. Being able to change the plan for a planned type character on a whim with no downtime or transition period ruins the point of planning out a character. I'd likely leave at that point, because there would be no point in making any character choices since nothing had repercussions.

[Kaboth]

/not signed
The three-day spec out is already more than generous, in my opinion.

My main is a sorc and I have to agree, that a change all spells option is not good, its a drawback of being a sorc and able to swap out one spell every three days is generous and painful enough to not make it substitute wizard option.