Need help with the smart fighter

[Arstortuga]

Please bear with me, as this is my first post on the forums (never even created a forum name), and I am just returning after having played for about a month or so after headstart. I am hoping someone can give me some solid suggestions for what to do for my original build. My original thought was to make a solid saves fighter, but it appears from talking with others that I am woefully underprepared for Stormreach now (never been on a raid, never seen a tome). But, I am not going to get rid of my first character, and she is 7th level (8th waiting to be taken), and I apparently need to get favor on her before I rebuild (not that I would anyways - you always have to love your first!) Anyways, I am going to put her stats below, and maybe some of you out there can come up with a suggestion for improvement (that isn't throw her away!). Though I guess I can change her feats now, and I have to choose enhancements. I have 28 points currently. Thanks!


Elf
Female
Fighter 7
Chaotic Nuetral

Starting Stats:

Str - 17
Dex - 15
Con - 11
Int - 12
Wis - 12
Cha - 8

Feats:

Dodge
Great Fortitude
Lightning Reflexes
Iron Will
Power Attack
Weapon Focus: Slashing
Weapon Specialization: Slashing

[Slayer918]

Doesn't look horrible... I'd drop great fortitude and lightning reflexes for something else (Iron will is a good pick though), I'd also switch from slashing weapon feats to piercing (pick up improved crit pierce at level 8), use rapiers and pick up the elf enhancements (you can use longswords w/ he enhancements and the feats you have now if you want... wont make a huge differenve but rapiers are better)...

This is actually close to a build I've been toying around with... you may consider picking up least and lesser dragonmarks of shadow? that will give you displacement... you could also then go for 4 levels of ranger this will net you about 50-60 spellpoints with a wisdom item (70-80 with 1 ap) that will give you 20-24 minutes or Ram's might (28-32) inbetween shrines which is essentially +1 to hit and +3 damage... very nice... and this allows you to take extend spell (though you will have to take your 4 levels of ranger BEFORE level 15 so extend is available) that will double your benefit from the dragonmarks...

If you can pick up a +1 int tome (if your on argo I'll be happy to toss you one) you'll be eligable for combat expertise... theres a lot of places you can take the template your sitting on right now...

If you want a more in-depth breakdown on a build just let me know what your looking for in your character (defensive, offensive, somewhere in between) and I'll see what I can whip up for you...

[Arstortuga]

My original thought was to have something of a strategist fighter - using tactics and such in battle, while being able to stay upright in the face of enemy fire, hence the higher wisdom and int, and saves. But, I don't really know how that plays out in DDO, with the trip/sunder/etc. abilities. So I am open to working my concept a bit.

I will have to look at the shadow marks, to see what the benefits are, as those sound fairly cool. I have always thought of rangers as two weapon fighters, and this character is sword and board, but I could look into that as well, as I am unfamiliar with the spell you mentioned.

As to rapiers vs. longswords, I seem to see a lot of builds on the forums using rapiers - I am a bit worried that I won't be able to get the best rapiers because everyone is looking for them. And I am on Khyber, but thanks for the tome offer, that is very kind.

I found a character builder in the forums, so I am going to try over the next few days to work with that as well. But please keep the ideas coming!

[Hadrian]

I would take luck of heroes before lightning reflexes or great fortitude. Fort saves are never a problem for a fighter, and will saves are always your biggest problem.

Are you a sword-and board fighter? You have the option to consume a +1 int tome (very easy to get now) and take combat expertise for a bit more armor class.

With combat expertise you unlock improved trip, which can be very useful.

You can also take stunning blow, which can help your offense tremendously.

Other than that I can't think of anything a build like this at your level would want, but I might be forgetting something.

Obviously, when you do reach level 8, take improved critical slashing (or your chosen weapon type).


The problem with going for a saves-based pure fighter is that you'll never get your saves as high as you would if you took a few levels of paladin with a bit of charisma to start. You could splash paladin still and depend on items for the charisma, but you'd fall a little bit short of a build planned that way from the start. Now, with force of personality, you can ignore will completely and, with at least 2 levels of paladin, use your CHA bonus as a bonus to all of your saves with double the effect for will.

I would suggest 3 levels of pally and no more if you want to go this way.

Normally you'd create with 14-ish charisma instead of 8, so the typical version of this is going to have at least somewhere around +3 or +4 more saves than you in all categories with double that for will saves (using force of personality) but you can still get respectable saves I'd think.

In response to your second post, which I didn't see when I made this post:

Rapiers are popular right now because they're the best choice for banishing weapons and they're the only choice for puncturing weapons. It's very hard to get the highest of high-end rapiers, but it's very easy to get solid piercing weapons. It won't hurt to go that route and just use lesser weapons until you eventually find what you need. The best stuff is very rare, and few people have them. They're now what vorpals were back when you last played.

[MysticRhythms]

I'll echo the above in saying that Great Fortitude is not necessary on a class that will have a solid Fortitude save naturally. If this has to be a saving throw feat, either Bullheaded or Luck of Heroes help Fighters pretty well.

I also think you should try to play with the dragonmarks. The elven Shadow Mark is pretty solid, actually and fits in with your need to be a defensive/tactics fighter.

[Arstortuga]

Well, I took the advice above as much as possible - I can't add in paladin because I am CN, and Ranger didn't seem to fit, but I moved around my feats, and took the dragonmarks. Please let me know what you think. I feel pretty good because my reflex and will saves are almost equal to my fort save now. Plus, it looked like spring attack would be really useful, but I know that some people think it isn't. I am not sure exactly how to rearrange my feats if I didn't take it, but that would free up 3 feats. The problem I ran into in the character builder is that the soonest I could use a +1 int tome, provided I can find one, is 7th level, which means that the soonest I can take combat expertise is 8th, but the improved critical seemed to be more useful right away than combat expertise, so I took that first. I got rid of power attack, as it didn't seem hugely effective the other day when playing, I seemed to remember it being better. Also, I just decided that I really like longswords, so I figured I would stick with those. A rapier just doesn't fit the picture in my head.

edit: I also tried taking out spring attack/mobility and adding in lightning reflexes/toughness...I am not sure which will keep me alive longer. I posted that build below the first.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.85
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 16 Chaotic Neutral Elf Female
(16 Fighter)
Hit Points: 180
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 9
Will: 9

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 16)
Strength 16 23
Dexterity 15 17
Constitution 11 11
Intelligence 12 13
Wisdom 12 12
Charisma 8 8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 8

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Iron Will

Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow

Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons

Level 5 (Fighter)

Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility

Level 7 (Fighter)

Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise

Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Trip

Level 11 (Fighter)

Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack

Level 13 (Fighter)

Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons

Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Luck of Heroes

Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance I
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance II
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance III
Enhancement: Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Elf Melee Attack II
Enhancement: Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Elf Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark I
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark II
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark III
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) III
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) IV
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) III
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) IV
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.85
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 16 Chaotic Neutral Elf Female
(16 Fighter)
Hit Points: 248
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 9
Will: 9

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 16)
Strength 16 23
Dexterity 15 17
Constitution 11 11
Intelligence 12 13
Wisdom 12 12
Charisma 8 8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 8

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Iron Will

Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow

Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons

Level 5 (Fighter)

Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow

Level 7 (Fighter)

Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise

Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Trip

Level 11 (Fighter)

Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 13 (Fighter)

Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons

Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Luck of Heroes

Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Critical
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance I
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance II
Enhancement: Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Elf Melee Attack II
Enhancement: Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Elf Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) III
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) IV
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) III
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) IV
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV

[MysticRhythms]

Find room to put Power Attack back in. It's the single largest DPS-enhancing feat. It's worth TWO feat slots if it actually had to cost that much. You will notice when your to-hit bonsu increases significantly and you are always hitting regardless of the penalty.

[Arstortuga]

Find room to put Power Attack back in. It's the single largest DPS-enhancing feat. It's worth TWO feat slots if it actually had to cost that much. You will notice when your to-hit bonsu increases significantly and you are always hitting regardless of the penalty.

Can you use power attack and combat expertise at the same time? Do I want to, if I can?

[Snoggy]

Can you use power attack and combat expertise at the same time? Do I want to, if I can?

No. And I'd probably say no, you wouldn't want to even if it were possible.

[Hadrian]

You can't use them at the same time, but there are times when both are useful. You can survive without it if you want to stay sword-and-board, but you will notice that you have less offense than those who do use it when you break out the two-hander and try to DPS.