DC's on elite are RIDICULOUS

[Vormaerin]

Exactly. The traps are out of line with the rest of the quest. To the point that they do the opposite of what they intend: they make rogues less relevant because the rogues can't do what's expected of them unless they focused on trap saves intensely.

Arguments that the player's mouse control skill should replace the game mechanics and that's cool just don't fly with me. Its great that you can do stuff like dodge shots or time traps. But the core mechanics (AC, reflex saves) need to remain relevant because this is a character based RPG, not an FPS.

[Grond]

The 'problem' is the perceived idea that elite has to be souped up to 'unplayable' status in an effort to make people run normal quests.

We're not finding it unplayable at all. 28 point build (first character I made in headstart) 12 rogue, 2 ranger, 1 wizard.

[bobbryan2]

We're not finding it unplayable at all. 28 point build (first character I made in headstart) 12 rogue, 2 ranger, 1 wizard.

I didn't say it was currently unplayable.

But that's what your arguments ultimately boil down to. Elite should be made harder and harder so that people finally think that normal is the 'normal' difficulty for most groups.

But I'm one of those people that think elite should just be about 2 levels higher than the base quest and give about 2 levels better rewards. And right now... traps on an elite lvl 2 quest are harder than a lvl 4 quest on normal, and I think that should be fixed.

[DasLurch]

As far as I can tell the whole thing is fine at upper levels. I am not saying it's perfectly fine at lowwer ones, but even the lowwest level quests coould be rough on elite for low level players. I'm liking the changes so far. I think that the biggest snag this has for people is the way it effects their low level favor gathering. It won't be too long before soomeone finds a way around it though.

[winsom]

until the devs lower the elite reflex DCs there are certain quests that knowledgeable players will simply not do on elite.

The +1 chest loot means less and less with every new Update. Why risk elite traps for +1 chests when you can wait two levels and get the same chests without playing elite? If elite play becomes less popular for some quests I will be happy, actually.

I guess it depends on the dungeon level. Someone told me the newest dungeons in the Vale need to be played on Hard to have a chance of unbound +2 tomes. Thats a reason to risk Hard, but not necessarily Elite.

[Tanka]

I guess it depends on the dungeon level. Someone told me the newest dungeons in the Vale need to be played on Hard to have a chance of unbound +2 tomes. Thats a reason to risk Hard, but not necessarily Elite.

Incorrect. First night, somebody in my group pulled an unbound +2 Wis tome as an end reward from Running With The Devils.

[Grond]

I didn't say it was currently unplayable.

But that's what your arguments ultimately boil down to. Elite should be made harder and harder so that people finally think that normal is the 'normal' difficulty for most groups.

But I'm one of those people that think elite should just be about 2 levels higher than the base quest and give about 2 levels better rewards. And right now... traps on an elite lvl 2 quest are harder than a lvl 4 quest on normal, and I think that should be fixed.

Sorry, I thought you were saying that elite had been souped up to an unplayable level.

I'm not arguing that it should be increased; I'm arguing against the outcry that it has been made impossible. Personally I wasn't unhappy with things before, I didn't feel like it needed to change, although there were certainly people that did. All I am saying is, with everyone ranting that it's too hard, my guild is still dragging me into everything on elite, just like before. I'm perfectly content to go on normal, some of them aren't. We aren't finding anything impossible, I am noticing that they wait for the rogue to disarm now.

[bobbryan2]

Incorrect. First night, somebody in my group pulled an unbound +2 Wis tome as an end reward from Running With The Devils.

It's correct. You have to run the quests on a minimum of hard to have a +2 tome drop out of a chest.

[MysticTheurge]

It's correct. You have to run the quests on a minimum of hard to have a +2 tome drop out of a chest.

Does this mean end rewards are actually higher level "chests" than the chests in the quest on normal?

[tihocan]

Does this mean end rewards are actually higher level "chests" than the chests in the quest on normal?

Yes, they have been for a while now. My own guess is +1, some say +2.

[bobbryan2]

Does this mean end rewards are actually higher level "chests" than the chests in the quest on normal?

Yep, was changed around Mod 4 to make the end rewards more rewarding than just normal chests in the quest. It was in response to the complaint that end rewards were never as good as what you got in the quest, so there is no incentive to ever finish the quest.