DC's on elite are RIDICULOUS

[Zenix_Leviticus]

*gasp* is it possible that we agree on something?

Watch out, the world is about to end in three...

two..

one.

rofl.... You know, I was thinking the same thing about myself and MT.

I don't know if MT is changing or I am, but I have been agreeing with him
a lot more in the last couple of weeks.


I think maybe armegeddon is upn us all!


DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

[MysticTheurge]

**** right. AC makes the game too easy since you can physically dodge monster attacks too, and do it while melee'ing them back to boot

The game you want is not D&D.

Kindly go play some FPS and leave the rest of us alone.

[miceelf88]

If elite is going to mean "impeccable twitch skills" (which SOME of what the devs have done suggests may be the case), I may as well just throw it in. I don't design my characters or play DnD in any form just to be shown that I suck at Halo3. I can do that on my xbox, thank you very much.

Incidentally, I don't suffer lag on my xbox, so if DDO is going to be twitch central, I'll just spend my time and money elsewhere.

[Shade]

The game you want is not D&D.

Kindly go play some FPS and leave the rest of us alone.

No. It IS DnD. Without the rules.

In DnD - if you are wearing a robe and have an amazing high dex - the enemy swings at you and rolls to low to hit you - that means you dodged his attack. That doesn't happen in DDO, you dodgeh is attack - and he has no attack roll to begin with. He hits you - well he hit you, why are you getting a roll to dodge?

Beside that already IS DDO elite. No one's realisticly doing much with there AC on elite in any of the new content. It's not designed for that.

If you wanna rely on AC, go right away, the game caters to all groups. There is another setting for people who don't want the game to be hard like that.

It's called normal, give it a go.

[Shade]

Incidentally, I don't suffer lag on my xbox, so if DDO is going to be twitch central, I'll just spend my time and money elsewhere.

Your lucky then heh. Halo lags for me online lots, even more then DDO.

And yea see ya, have fun in a different game. Or maybe play on normal.

[ViVid7th]

While I do trap dodge on my characters quite often, it's a handy skill but not one that always applies. Some traps don't have 'cycles', they are just always on. Some types of traps don't count the 3rd dimension properly (meaning that if you are in the air far above the trap, you sill make a save). Some traps you can't judge the cycles on them because the trap is many separate parts working on separate cycle timers and those parts are beyond line of sight and sound. And lets not forget the rooms that have the entire floor covered in separate spike traps that trigger if you stop in one spot for 3 seconds.

Trap dodging shouldn't be 100% required, this isn't Halo. DDO combines build, gear and skill to perform.

[Shade]

Trap dodging shouldn't be 100% required, this isn't Halo. DDO combines build, gear and skill to perform.

Yep thats whats great about the game. Every obstacle has multple ways to win. You can do it with twitch skill, build, or simply some tricks based on your quest knowledge.

My point here is that all the players who lack either build or tricks to get by the traps should use twitch skill to do it. If they lack all 3 of those - they aren't elite and they need to stop crying.

And I don't agree with your idea of some traps being undodgeable, I haven't encountered such a beast in the game. Certainly many are xtremely difficult to dodge, and many require things like max jump and sprint boost.. But with those ability's I don't recall a single trap that I HAD TO get hit by to get around.

[MysticTheurge]

No. It IS DnD. Without the rules.

Is that like Poker without the rules? Or Monopoly without the rules? Or football without the rules?

[Shade]

Is that like Poker without the rules? Or Monopoly without the rules? Or football without the rules?

No those are boring without rules. Now fighting monsters without rules? That rocks.

[miceelf88]

My statement was I'd be leaving IF.

Not going anywhere yet, sorry.

And, Shade, since when did YOU get to decide that DDO is meant to be a twitch fest on elite? You may be right, and if you are (again, IF), I'll be leaving. But I would love to hear from the devs about what they consider the elite game to be before I make that decision as I love the game for the most part (and loved it even more up until the trap thing).

Incidentally, and this is a side note- why doesn't something like the DR -/5 from warchanters affect slashing or piercing trap damage?

[MysticTheurge]

No those are boring without rules. Now fighting monsters without rules? That rocks.

Regardless of whether you think D&D-without-the-D&D-rules rocks or not, it's simply not D&D.

If you want a twitchfest without the D&D rules, there are other games you can play.

[Shade]

Incidentally, and this is a side note- why doesn't something like the DR -/5 from warchanters affect slashing or piercing trap damage?

It does. It just doesn't display in the combat log but it works fine.

I'm just describing how elite is now. I like that skill matters.
You got a problem with it being un-DnD like, well thats your problem. It might not adher to DnD rules perfectly but I don't care much.

The devs already said there intentions in the release notes - to make elite traps nasty and thus more elite.. They've succeeded, so they don't need to explain further.

BTW Mystictheurge, whats a good twitchfest game based on the DnD universe to play?

[EinarMal]

It does. It just doesn't display in the combat log but it works fine.

I'm just describing how elite is now. I like that skill matters.
You got a problem with it being un-DnD like, well thats your problem. It might not adher to DnD rules perfectly but I don't care much.

The devs already said there intentions in the release notes - to make elite traps nasty and thus more elite.. They've succeeded, so they don't need to explain further.

BTW Mystictheurge, whats a good twitchfest game based on the DnD universe to play?

Well here's the thing, only a tiny fraction of the player base are really excellent players with super twitch skills/build knowledge/game knowledge/uber gear. If that is what is required to do elite quests even remotely near your level this will become a big issue. I don't think this is the case yet, although it seems to be more and more headed in that direction.

If that is what they want to do then I think they need to re-think the favor system at least. It is fine to make some ultra "insane" level of difficulty. I would rather they do that to please people like you, and leave the quests alone otherwise, or at least not boosted to crazy levels.

To say that the devs can ignore people who do not like the ever escalation to elite difficulty is naive at best. They will have to answer if people get fed up with the difficulty level of the game and move on, they will answer with their jobs.

[MysticTheurge]

BTW Mystictheurge, whats a good twitchfest game based on the DnD universe to play?

Well, you've added a criteria that I didn't.

Oddly enough you'll find that there aren't a lot of twitch-based D&D games. I wonder why that is.

[Shade]

If that is what they want to do then I think they need to re-think the favor system at least. It is fine to make some ultra "insane" level of difficulty. I would rather they do that to please people like you, and leave the quests alone otherwise, or at least not boosted to crazy levels.

Yea I agree.. The favor thing is a bit unfair since the rewards are really geared towards all players. Maybe hard and elite should give the same amount of favor.

Then add a nightmare mode. Minor XP increase, No xtra loot or favor so most gamers dont miss out. With new rules:
No to-hit rolls for monsters - they always hit you.
No saves for traps - you have to dodge them.
No damage for traps - they kill you instantly - additionally if you die to a trap you cannot be rezzed for 10minuits, your permanently dead.
Monsters can critical hit players regardless of fortification status.
All mobs imune to vorpal, smite, disrupt, wounding.
Boss mobs all have 10x Hitpoints.

That would be fun

[miceelf88]

Impaqt had a good suggestion for that, where normal and hard provide favor and elite just provides better loot. That would be a good system.

I'll definitely be one of the people they lose if they go down this path of elite means either very specific builds or crazy twitch/perfect connection.. I am hoping that's not the case, but there is defintely some movement in that direction.

I would love to hear the devs comment on what they see the elite game to be. That way, we could have a sense of what they were going for, and then it would be a question of whether this was poor implementation or working as intended.

MT- the reason is that most DnD players (at least ones like me) are pretty uncoordinated. That's why I was playing DnD when my classmates were playing hockey or whatever.

[Shade]

Well, you've added a criteria that I didn't.

Oddly enough you'll find that there aren't a lot of twitch-based D&D games. I wonder why that is.

Expensive license given to a now dying publisher.

DDO is it for now.

DnD does have such a cool monster set and lore that it deserves more games based off it tho. It did have a couple non pure rpg ones a while back like that RTS one, that was kinda neat.

[EinarMal]

Yea I agree.. The favor thing is a bit unfair since the rewards are really geared towards all players. Maybe hard and elite should give the same amount of favor.

Then add a nightmare mode. Minor XP increase, No xtra loot or favor so most gamers dont miss out. With new rules:
No to-hit rolls for monsters - they always hit you.
No saves for traps - you have to dodge them.
No damage for traps - they kill you instantly - additionally if you die to a trap you cannot be rezzed for 10minuits, your permanently dead.
Monsters can critical hit players regardless of fortification status.
All mobs imune to vorpal, smite, disrupt, wounding.
Boss mobs all have 10x Hitpoints.

That would be fun

This would be a much better solution than trying to shut out "normal" gamers from quests by making them too hard. BTW good luck with that mode that does not look fun to me at all!

[Shade]

To say that the devs can ignore people who do not like the ever escalation to elite difficulty is naive at best. They will have to answer if people get fed up with the difficulty level of the game and move on, they will answer with their jobs.

How are they ignoring them?

The new raid is THE content designed for people who don't like mega hard raids like abbot. It's super easy to get ready for, not nessary to do on elite at all, and very easy to do even for casual gamers with zero twitch skill.

You guys aren't being ignored at all. Turbine knows who there #1 customer is. And it's definetely not me lol

[MysticTheurge]

DnD does have such a cool monster set and lore that it deserves more games based off it tho. It did have a couple non pure rpg ones a while back like that RTS one, that was kinda neat.

Well, truthfully, just about every medieval fantasy game since the 80s is, to some degree, based off of D&D (which is, of course, in turn based off of Tolkein).

But if you mean more games should have the D&D name, the reason you don't see non-RPG games like that is pretty much what miceelf lays out here.

MT- the reason is that most DnD players (at least ones like me) are pretty uncoordinated. That's why I was playing DnD when my classmates were playing hockey or whatever.

And yes, in truth, if Elite was the same as Normal in terms of rewards, I could care less what they did to it. But that would mean no extra XP, no extra loot, no extra favor. The only difference between Normal and Elite would be that Elite would be harder. Then you can make it a pure-twitch game for all I care and I'd just play normal. But "just playing normal" isn't really an option in the game as it is now, and so Elite has to be accessible to all types of players, twitch-fiends or not.